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Forums - Politics Discussion - Yet another call for gun control - Daily Show

MoiseHnkel on 03 May 2013

I found it hillarious because, we have still people defending the fact that the gun control doesn't work

and then again australia had almost 18 mass shouting in 18 years before they made the gun control almost one a year.

and now none nada wooptidoo.

the murder and suicide rate as dropped radicaly .. and THEN AGAIN it doesn't work ?!?!




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sc94597 on 03 May 2013
the2real4mafol said:
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
snyps said:
i love seeing europeans talk about how unsafe it is to live in the us. Theres more violence in europe.

the only ppl we fear in america is the government.. and we are afraid of becoming like europe.

Funny that, as you all came from Europeans and our actions. But I would be afraid of your government too, when they only listen to the people with the money despite the fact that every part of society votes. No matter the consequences

Americans fled Europe for a reason. Most often because they were oppressed by the despotist policies of European states.  

I suppose the Australians left for the same reason and let they are no different to us now, although many were criminals... Although, i don't think the first Americans were any better than us after how they treated the natives or the Africans they continued to bring over for the slave trade (i'm glad the civil war settled that one at least). Not like the English or French were any better though. But anyway, America once a progressive modern state, not so much any more. 

Was liberalism (real liberalism - not the leftist stuff espoused today) ever as strong in any continent than North America? If not, then there's your answer.

Also, the United States was indeed once a "progressive" country. The progressive movement was so awesome with its eugenics  , internationalism, and interventionism. 

Fortunately, liberalism and freedom have been much more popular notions in the U.S than "progressivism." Right now it hides under liberalism, but it's still as despicably authoritarian and abhorent as ever. 



the2real4mafol on 03 May 2013
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
snyps said:
i love seeing europeans talk about how unsafe it is to live in the us. Theres more violence in europe.

the only ppl we fear in america is the government.. and we are afraid of becoming like europe.

Funny that, as you all came from Europeans and our actions. But I would be afraid of your government too, when they only listen to the people with the money despite the fact that every part of society votes. No matter the consequences

Americans fled Europe for a reason. Most often because they were oppressed by the despotist policies of European states.  

I suppose the Australians left for the same reason and let they are no different to us now, although many were criminals... Although, i don't think the first Americans were any better than us after how they treated the natives or the Africans they continued to bring over for the slave trade (i'm glad the civil war settled that one at least). Not like the English or French were any better though. But anyway, America once a progressive modern state, not so much any more. 

1. Was liberalism (real liberalism - not the leftist stuff espoused today) ever as strong in any continent than North America? If not, then there's your answer.

2. Also, the United States was indeed once a "progressive" country. The progressive movement was so awesome with its eugenics  , internationalism, and interventionism. 

Fortunately, liberalism and freedom have been much more popular notions in the U.S than "progressivism." Right now it hides under liberalism, but it's still as despicably authoritarian and abhorent as ever. 

1. Thinking about it, it was where real liberalism comes from. That ideology still sort of lives on today there, with the free marketeers and those who really want to stick with the American constitution. Unfortunately, neither main party seem to stick to this very American belief. Only the Libertarian party seem to. But back to the point, you could say the liberalism in the USA of 1776 was what truly inspired Europeans, especially the French in 1789 (although that idea didn't seem to last long there, it changed everything. The enlightenment had a lasting effect) 

2. I don't know it don't seem so liberal, at least in the last century or so. Alcohol prohibition in the 20's, Intervention in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq over it's own fears despite the fact those countries were no threat to the US. War on drugs, trying to pass SOPA, CISPA etc. Guantananmo bay, Patriot Act. The Civil Rights Act was like the only liberal thing they did. I agree the US federal government is authoritarian though

I might give those articles a read later to give some in sight



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Luck on 03 May 2013

Can someone explain to me why are Americans so obsessed with guns ? Unless used for hunting, I never quite understood the attractiveness toward guns.



sc94597 on 03 May 2013
Luck said:
Can someone explain to me why are Americans so obsessed with guns ? Unless used for hunting, I never quite understood the attractiveness toward guns.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerable_Acts

That's why. 



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sc94597 on 03 May 2013
PDF said:
Its so weird to me that the same party that pushed for the patriot act is the same party saying we need our guns for fear of the government.

Republicans would ban guns if they could. They know their voter base is heavily pro-gun though, so that's why they don't try. Many democrats vote against gun control as well for this very reason, particularly those in red states. 

Plus Republicans are more diverse than Democrats. There are social conservatives, neo-conservatives, paleo-conservatives, libertarian-conservatives, moderates, etc. 



sc94597 on 03 May 2013
the2real4mafol said:
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
snyps said:
i love seeing europeans talk about how unsafe it is to live in the us. Theres more violence in europe.

the only ppl we fear in america is the government.. and we are afraid of becoming like europe.

Funny that, as you all came from Europeans and our actions. But I would be afraid of your government too, when they only listen to the people with the money despite the fact that every part of society votes. No matter the consequences

Americans fled Europe for a reason. Most often because they were oppressed by the despotist policies of European states.  

I suppose the Australians left for the same reason and let they are no different to us now, although many were criminals... Although, i don't think the first Americans were any better than us after how they treated the natives or the Africans they continued to bring over for the slave trade (i'm glad the civil war settled that one at least). Not like the English or French were any better though. But anyway, America once a progressive modern state, not so much any more. 

1. Was liberalism (real liberalism - not the leftist stuff espoused today) ever as strong in any continent than North America? If not, then there's your answer.

2. Also, the United States was indeed once a "progressive" country. The progressive movement was so awesome with its eugenics  , internationalism, and interventionism. 

Fortunately, liberalism and freedom have been much more popular notions in the U.S than "progressivism." Right now it hides under liberalism, but it's still as despicably authoritarian and abhorent as ever. 

1. Thinking about it, it was where real liberalism comes from. That ideology still sort of lives on today there, with the free marketeers and those who really want to stick with the American constitution. Unfortunately, neither main party seem to stick to this very American belief. Only the Libertarian party seem to. But back to the point, you could say the liberalism in the USA of 1776 was what truly inspired Europeans, especially the French in 1789 (although that idea didn't seem to last long there, it changed everything. The enlightenment had a lasting effect) 

2. I don't know it don't seem so liberal, at least in the last century or so. Alcohol prohibition in the 20's, Intervention in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq over it's own fears despite the fact those countries were no threat to the US. War on drugs, trying to pass SOPA, CISPA etc. Guantananmo bay, Patriot Act. The Civil Rights Act was like the only liberal thing they did. I agree the US federal government is authoritarian though

I might give those articles a read later to give some in sight


1. It is heavily rooted in British liberalism though. It's just the British accepted the appeasement of rulers as sufficient, and the Americans chose a republican route. 

2. Agreed, precisely why we need guns. 



the2real4mafol on 03 May 2013
sc94597 said:
the2real4mafol said:
 

1. Thinking about it, it was where real liberalism comes from. That ideology still sort of lives on today there, with the free marketeers and those who really want to stick with the American constitution. Unfortunately, neither main party seem to stick to this very American belief. Only the Libertarian party seem to. But back to the point, you could say the liberalism in the USA of 1776 was what truly inspired Europeans, especially the French in 1789 (although that idea didn't seem to last long there, it changed everything. The enlightenment had a lasting effect) 

2. I don't know it don't seem so liberal, at least in the last century or so. Alcohol prohibition in the 20's, Intervention in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq over it's own fears despite the fact those countries were no threat to the US. War on drugs, trying to pass SOPA, CISPA etc. Guantananmo bay, Patriot Act. The Civil Rights Act was like the only liberal thing they did. I agree the US federal government is authoritarian though

I might give those articles a read later to give some in sight


1. It is heavily rooted in British liberalism though. It's just the British accepted the appeasement of rulers as sufficient, and the Americans chose a republican route. 

2. Agreed, precisely why we need guns. 

1. yeah, the republicans and Oliver Cromwell wasn't for us 

2. How can I say the Alcohol prohibition and the war on drugs are wrong but say we should ban guns? I make no sense at times 



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

sc94597 on 03 May 2013
the2real4mafol said:

2. How can I say the Alcohol prohibition and the war on drugs are wrong but say we should ban guns? I make no sense at times 

I was mostly referring to the authoritarian governments found in the U.S, bordering police states at times, but that too. 



sc94597 on 03 May 2013
PDF said:
sc94597 said:
PDF said:
Its so weird to me that the same party that pushed for the patriot act is the same party saying we need our guns for fear of the government.

Republicans would ban guns if they could. They know their voter base is heavily pro-gun though, so that's why they don't try. Many democrats vote against gun control as well for this very reason, particularly those in red states. 

Plus Republicans are more diverse than Democrats. There are social conservatives, neo-conservatives, paleo-conservatives, libertarian-conservatives, moderates, etc. 

I did not mean to oversimplify the party or issue.  Still  what I said is true.  The Patriot Act removed our freedoms for the sake of safety far more than gun control.  Giving Big Brother immense power.  Yet largely the same group that gave the government this power now argues to fear uncle sam taking their freedom(guns).

Also your point makes it seem as if you are only a republican or democrat if your elected.  That voter base is largely republican which is includes group of people I am talking about.   It may be the elected officials making the rules but these are talking points I see in this thread and hear on the street.

- disclosure:  I am a registered republican.

I see. As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, it can be explained by this quote from Mr. Emanuel

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." 

The neo-cons at Fox News did not let the crisis that was 9/11 go to waste. Basically the power cycle goes: Corporations own media, corporations sleep with government, government and corporations work together to influence public opinion via the media, public votes for more corporatist politicians. Voting is just a war over which special interests group gets what it wants from the people via government. The contradictions occur because people are mostly uneducated and unprincipled. So you'll see rights violations on different areas by both republicans and democrats. Hencely, there is no true liberal (in all matters) constiuency in the U.S government besides a few people here and there.