With the sheer spec of PS4, Sony are going to have to sell it at a hefty price or take huge losses on it if they sell it cheaper. Either way both options could be seen to be a bit of a gamble. Wii U is only making a small loss which can be made up by selling a couple of pieces of software. This gives them room to make possible price cuts in the future should they wish to do so.
I also think Nintendo will finally get the message across regarding the gamepad,and again become unique as opposed to the competition.

PS can i ask, how high do you think dev costs will be to make high quality games that utilize PS4 hardware. My guess is pretty damn expensive, this could lead to an increase in software prices or having to sell a shit ton of games just to break even.

Jay520 said: The problem I see is Nintendo making the gamepad worthwhile. Firstly, I can't even imagine any person using the Gamepad for any substantial period of time due to the sheer size of the thing. And secondly, I can't imagine any impressive gameplay advantages that the Gamepad can provide, aside from menus or something like that. For those reasons I think the Gamepad is a huge mistake on Nintendo's front. One things for sure, the Gamepad will never be as appealing as motion controls were. So I think a more powerful Wii with a stronger emphasis on motion controls would be a much better strategy.

Gamepad weight 1.1 pounds.  Newest iPad weight 1.44.  iPad seems to be doing alright, and the Gamepad is more ergonomically designed.  By comparison, a 360 controller weighs 10.6 ounces.  Just over 5/6 of a lb.  Personally, the weight of the Wii U gamepad has not prevented me in any way shape or form from long play sessions.  Does it bother you from personal experience or is this just a random assumption?

That's too bad that you can't imagine anything useful being done with the Gamepad, but we've already seen some creative stuff.  Check out some stuff from Game and Wario, Nintendo Land, and even some of the brief snippets of Wii U Party.  Check out the multiplayer mode of zombi u.  Off TV play is a lifesaver when grinding for speed points in most wanted. And the radar on Zombi U is essential to the experience.  A lot of people didn't see the potential in the DS or the Wii either.  I'd say by the end of the year we'll have a better idea of what the Gamepad is worth one way or another.

You're a Sony fan, right?  If the Wii U was as powerful as the PS4, would you buy it?  Even if you did buy it, which system would you buy your multiplatforms for?  Nintendo is not going to win fans by going the same route as their competitors.   How does a more powerful console really make financial sense for Nintendo?

In regards to motion controls, I think they've done about what could be done.  I'd love a nunchuck that had better motion capabilities, but other than that, all Nintendo could really do is go the Kinect route, which I don't think would work out for them.

You are right. Nintendo needed to go the route of a new "novelty" with a not so powerful console, like the Wii, which has been a success, rather than beefing up the system to directly compete with the PS720, which has not been a big success for them with the GC and N64, which were both very powerful consoles but still got beat by competing consoles.

The only caveat to this is that the Wii U's "novelty", which is the Gamepad, hasn't caught on to the Wii's consumer base (parents, grandmothers, etc) or some other untapped market like the Wiimote did many years ago, which is what propelled Nintendo to such amazing heights. People seem to think that the Nintendo enthusiasts who bought the Zelda/Mario/SSBB games were the ones who singlehandedly made Wii what it was, which is not the case. The Nintendo enthusiasts alone will bring Nintendo N64/GC level sales as proven before. It is the rather the combination of Nintendo enthusiasts AND the "casual" market that brought them the Wii level success, and this ratio is probably lopsided towards the casuals more than the enthusiasts.

Now if we look at the Wii U, Nintendo rightfully tried to emulate what they did with the Wii, that is bring in another novel controller which will garner the attention of the wider fanbase once more. It was a high risk, high reward strategy, but that strategy so far seems to have failed. The "casuals" that came in last time don't seem to be picking up on the gamepad craze. So all Nintendo are left with now for the rest of this generation are the Nintendo enthusiasts who will buy the console and the Nintendo exclusives as they have been doing for years past. But we all know what happens when a Nintendo console is only supported by the Nintendo enthusiasts: N64/GC. Thus the Wii U as of now, given Nintendo releases all their exclusive goodness will be heading towards a N64/GC kind of future.

This could only change if somehow Nintendo managed to bring back all those mothers/grandmothers who bought the Wii en-mass, or some other market we have not seen before, but you can judge for yourself for now whether that will be possible with the Gamepad, like it was made possible with the Wiimote. We will just have to wait and see.

I don't know. The Wii U is only a smart move if it sells well enough to sell large amounts of software. I expect Nintendo will sell faster when their real games comes out, but right now people are more excited about the Nextbox and PS4. At least from what I've seen on the internet. In real life it's all about retail push. Unfortunately for Nintendo the Wii Fad is over and the casuals aren't coming back. I think the Wii U is going to be able to hold it's own for this generation and be compared to the N64 when history looks back at the 8th generation. To me that means that people who only have a Wii U will feel like people who only had an N64. They will love their games, but they will miss the big stuff they can't have.

I'm fine with the strategy they went with. Do I wish they would have beefed it up a bit more? Sure, but ultimately graphics don't matter that much to me. If I want to play pretty multiplats, I go to my PC.

Nintendo in fact is the only company who I believe is doing consoles right. They are focusing on new play controls, good software, at a cheap price. If you want good looking multiplats, really what you want is a gaming PC.

That being said, power does matter in that really the games need to not hurt my eyes. The Wii was too weak for its time, but we are starting to hit a graphics wall, so I think I'll be happy with how the Wii U looks.

But they really need to change their strategy in a few respects. Software output has to increase. If they really have billions lying around like everyone says, then they need to put that back into new teams/working with third parties on exclusives.

Another thing they absolutely have to do that they are taking baby steps with is online. One of the benefits of a console is a unified online community. Miiverse is great, and Nintendo has improved drastically from the Wii, but they need to make it fully featured. Make it super easy to play with my friends Nintendo.

Kind of a rant, but TL:DR Nintendo is making a unique console while the other two manufactures are going to be making gaming PC's that are under powered for a gaming PC. I like the strategy that they are taking, but it needs to be improved upon.

Great analysis, sometimes people forget that a console do not need to appeal the "hardcore" segment of market in order to be profitable.

I have a lot criticism of the Wii U especially for the WiiPad and Nintendo Land, but I do not think that Nintendo is going to loose money from it during this generation. I also see the console one step ahead of the GameCube and the N64 because of New Super Mario U.

UltimateUnknown said: You are right. Nintendo needed to go the route of a new "novelty" with a not so powerful console, like the Wii, which has been a success, rather than beefing up the system to directly compete with the PS720, which has not been a big success for them with the GC and N64, which were both very powerful consoles but still got beat by competing consoles. The only caveat to this is that the Wii U's "novelty", which is the Gamepad, hasn't caught on to the Wii's consumer base (parents, grandmothers, etc) or some other untapped market like the Wiimote did many years ago, which is what propelled Nintendo to such amazing heights. People seem to think that the Nintendo enthusiasts who bought the Zelda/Mario/SSBB games were the ones who singlehandedly made Wii what it was, which is not the case. The Nintendo enthusiasts alone will bring Nintendo N64/GC level sales as proven before. It is the rather the combination of Nintendo enthusiasts AND the "casual" market that brought them the Wii level success, and this ratio is probably lopsided towards the casuals more than the enthusiasts. Now if we look at the Wii U, Nintendo rightfully tried to emulate what they did with the Wii, that is bring in another novel controller which will garner the attention of the wider fanbase once more. It was a high risk, high reward strategy, but that strategy so far seems to have failed. The "casuals" that came in last time don't seem to be picking up on the gamepad craze. So all Nintendo are left with now for the rest of this generation are the Nintendo enthusiasts who will buy the console and the Nintendo exclusives as they have been doing for years past. But we all know what happens when a Nintendo console is only supported by the Nintendo enthusiasts: N64/GC. Thus the Wii U as of now, given Nintendo releases all their exclusive goodness will be heading towards a N64/GC kind of future. This could only change if somehow Nintendo managed to bring back all those mothers/grandmothers who bought the Wii en-mass, or some other market we have not seen before, but you can judge for yourself for now whether that will be possible with the Gamepad, like it was made possible with the Wiimote. We will just have to wait and see.

I don't think the Gamepad is a problem, and I don't think the Wiimote was really the heart of the Wii's success.

I don't think that the Wii achieved such success simply because people liked Motion Controls.  What made the Wii a success was the fact that it presented people with games that they could play.  It was a matter of accessibility which was certainly complemented by motion controls, but not dependent on them.  I think that Nintendo can create games that are accessible and attractive to so called casual gamers without motion controls, as they did with titles like Animal Crossing, New Super Mario Bros, or Mario Galaxy.

As for why the Wii U isn't selling well, it's pretty much due to the library.  Take my sister for instance.  She had a Wii, but she didn't really like Mario Bros that much.  She loved Mario Kart however, and plays it really often with her roommates.  So, just because she's not going to rush out and buy a Wii U day one doesn't mean she's not going to get one when Mario Kart comes out, although that seems to be the bizarre assumption a lot of people round here are making.  Wii Fit U, Wii Party U, Mario Kart Wii U, and Mario Galaxy U should all be coming before this year ends.  If those games don't bring back a lot of Wii owners (and perhaps some new fans), THEN I'll start worrying about the Wii U

JWeinCom said: Jay520 said: The problem I see is Nintendo making the gamepad worthwhile. Firstly, I can't even imagine any person using the Gamepad for any substantial period of time due to the sheer size of the thing. And secondly, I can't imagine any impressive gameplay advantages that the Gamepad can provide, aside from menus or something like that. For those reasons I think the Gamepad is a huge mistake on Nintendo's front. One things for sure, the Gamepad will never be as appealing as motion controls were. So I think a more powerful Wii with a stronger emphasis on motion controls would be a much better strategy. Gamepad weight 1.1 pounds.  Newest iPad weight 1.44.  iPad seems to be doing alright, and the Gamepad is more ergonomically designed.  By comparison, a 360 controller weighs 10.6 ounces.  Just over 5/6 of a lb.  Personally, the weight of the Wii U gamepad has not prevented me in any way shape or form from long play sessions.  Does it bother you from personal experience or is this just a random assumption? That's too bad that you can't imagine anything useful being done with the Gamepad, but we've already seen some creative stuff.  Check out some stuff from Game and Wario, Nintendo Land, and even some of the brief snippets of Wii U Party.  Check out the multiplayer mode of zombi u.  Off TV play is a lifesaver when grinding for speed points in most wanted. And the radar on Zombi U is essential to the experience.  A lot of people didn't see the potential in the DS or the Wii either.  I'd say by the end of the year we'll have a better idea of what the Gamepad is worth one way or another. You're a Sony fan, right?  If the Wii U was as powerful as the PS4, would you buy it?  Even if you did buy it, which system would you buy your multiplatforms for?  Nintendo is not going to win fans by going the same route as their competitors.   How does a more powerful console really make financial sense for Nintendo? In regards to motion controls, I think they've done about what could be done.  I'd love a nunchuck that had better motion capabilities, but other than that, all Nintendo could really do is go the Kinect route, which I don't think would work out for them.

Not talking about weight. I'm talking about size. I'm sure I wouldn't mind it. But for the mainstream, I can't imagine the tablet being well received by a large pool of casuals. Unlike the Wiimote, it doesnt appear as nearly as accessible. Perhaps it will take off, but I doubt it. I can't imagine families across the world in their living rooms using tablets to play games on TV.

You've listed some interesting uses that can enhance gameplay. But they just enhance the experience already presented. I don't see anything that creates new experiences. I don't see anything that has the appeal to bring in large pools of gamers. All those things seem great for people who already own those games, but nothing that has the ability to attract new gamers.

When I said more powerful, I didn't mean more powerful than the Wii U. I meant a console essentially the same as the Wii, but more powerful.

There needs to be some genius implementations of the gamepad to make it a must have product.

Right now, people are just grabbing it for the first party titles. ZombiU had good ideas, but the game overall wasn't good.

Jay520 said: JWeinCom said: Jay520 said: The problem I see is Nintendo making the gamepad worthwhile. Firstly, I can't even imagine any person using the Gamepad for any substantial period of time due to the sheer size of the thing. And secondly, I can't imagine any impressive gameplay advantages that the Gamepad can provide, aside from menus or something like that. For those reasons I think the Gamepad is a huge mistake on Nintendo's front. One things for sure, the Gamepad will never be as appealing as motion controls were. So I think a more powerful Wii with a stronger emphasis on motion controls would be a much better strategy. Gamepad weight 1.1 pounds.  Newest iPad weight 1.44.  iPad seems to be doing alright, and the Gamepad is more ergonomically designed.  By comparison, a 360 controller weighs 10.6 ounces.  Just over 5/6 of a lb.  Personally, the weight of the Wii U gamepad has not prevented me in any way shape or form from long play sessions.  Does it bother you from personal experience or is this just a random assumption? That's too bad that you can't imagine anything useful being done with the Gamepad, but we've already seen some creative stuff.  Check out some stuff from Game and Wario, Nintendo Land, and even some of the brief snippets of Wii U Party.  Check out the multiplayer mode of zombi u.  Off TV play is a lifesaver when grinding for speed points in most wanted. And the radar on Zombi U is essential to the experience.  A lot of people didn't see the potential in the DS or the Wii either.  I'd say by the end of the year we'll have a better idea of what the Gamepad is worth one way or another. You're a Sony fan, right?  If the Wii U was as powerful as the PS4, would you buy it?  Even if you did buy it, which system would you buy your multiplatforms for?  Nintendo is not going to win fans by going the same route as their competitors.   How does a more powerful console really make financial sense for Nintendo? In regards to motion controls, I think they've done about what could be done.  I'd love a nunchuck that had better motion capabilities, but other than that, all Nintendo could really do is go the Kinect route, which I don't think would work out for them. Not talking about weight. I'm talking about size. I'm sure I wouldn't mind it. But for the mainstream, I can't imagine the tablet being well received by a large pool of casuals. Unlike the Wiimote, it doesnt appear as nearly as accessible. Perhaps it will take off, but I doubt it. I can't imagine families across the world in their living rooms using tablets to play games on TV. You've listed some interesting uses that can enhance gameplay. But they just enhance the experience already presented. I don't see anything that creates new experiences. I don't see anything that has the appeal to bring in large pools of gamers. All those things seem great for people who already own those games, but nothing that has the ability to attract new gamers. When I said more powerful, I didn't mean more powerful than the Wii U. I meant a console essentially the same as the Wii, but more powerful.

The mainstream is pretty used to using relatively large tablets.  People use tablets for lost of things, including gameplay, so I'm not sure why you find this particular use unappealing.

As for new expereinces, I would say that Mario Chase is certainly a new experience that is really worthwhile.  Legend of Zelda battle quest as well.  Maybe not system selling experiences, but definitely experiences well worth playing through.  The multiplayer capabilities are especially cool.  This is just 4 months in.  Personally, I think Nintendo has some ideas in mind for the Gamepad which will surprise me as they did for the Wiimote and DS.

Isn't the Wii U a more powerful Wii?  If you take away the tablet, the Wii U is just that.  Still could use the motion controls for it and everything.