Forums - General Discussion - Police Believe Sandy Hook Shooting Was An 'Emulation' Of Video Game Scenario

happydolphin said:
hsrob said:
Yes, fits perfectly with the international explosion in school shootings that has occured with the rising popularity of games....

That's a strawman. Even if that weren't true, the link is trivial to anyone honest about this and not "defensive" about violent games.

Another example is guns. True guns don't kill people, but put them in the wrong hands and it makes for some silly situations.

@Somini, just read your reply. Funny how I mentioned guns in my reply to hsrob :)

It would only be a strawman if I was genuinely claiming that is the position put forth which of course I wasn't ;) 

It troubles me though that games are being looked at as a cause by the police when logic dictates that even if they are 'proven' to be part of the problem here they are clearly not the main issue.  Games are ubiquitous in the developed world, mass shootings and school shootings are not.

Trying to finger games seems at best to be oversimplifying an issue that simply isn't simply, and at worst, blatent scapegoating.

Neither approach can possibly lead to a solution that will decrease the number of innocent people being killed by gun (or any other kind of) violence.  I have no prejudice in how that solution is arrived at, if it takes more guns, so be it. However, trying to prove a link, after-the-fact, if that is one's intention, will inevitably lead to proof in the positive but not necessarily the correct conclusion.



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hsrob said:

It would only be a strawman if I was genuinely claiming that is the position put forth which of course I wasn't ;) 

It troubles me though that games are being looked at as a cause by the police when logic dictates that even if they are 'proven' to be part of the problem here they are clearly not the main issue.  Games are ubiquitous in the developed world, mass shootings and school shootings are not.

Trying to finger games seems at best to be oversimplifying an issue that simply isn't simply, and at worst, blatent scapegoating.

Neither approach can possibly lead to a solution that will decrease the number of innocent people being killed by gun (or any other kind of) violence.  I have no prejudice in how that solution is arrived at, if it takes more guns, so be it. However, trying to prove a link, after-the-fact, if that is one's intention, will inevitably lead to proof in the positive but not necessarily the correct conclusion.

You know, the problem with violence as a diet for society is that, even if guns were removed from the equation, the more unstable would have more inspiration on other means to wreak havoc by using knives, household bombs, and any other tool they could devise for their mischeavous desires.

The problem with violence as a diet is that it feeds the madman, whereas guns could be eliminated as a tool, violence is the root.



happydolphin said:
hsrob said:

It would only be a strawman if I was genuinely claiming that is the position put forth which of course I wasn't ;) 

It troubles me though that games are being looked at as a cause by the police when logic dictates that even if they are 'proven' to be part of the problem here they are clearly not the main issue.  Games are ubiquitous in the developed world, mass shootings and school shootings are not.

Trying to finger games seems at best to be oversimplifying an issue that simply isn't simply, and at worst, blatent scapegoating.

Neither approach can possibly lead to a solution that will decrease the number of innocent people being killed by gun (or any other kind of) violence.  I have no prejudice in how that solution is arrived at, if it takes more guns, so be it. However, trying to prove a link, after-the-fact, if that is one's intention, will inevitably lead to proof in the positive but not necessarily the correct conclusion.

You know, the problem with violence as a diet for society is that, even if guns were removed from the equation, the more unstable would have more inspiration on other means to wreak havoc by using knives, household bombs, and any other tool they could devise for their mischeavous desires.

The problem with violence as a diet is that it feeds the madman, whereas guns could be eliminated as a tool, violence is the root.

I've not really stated anywhere that I thought guns should be removed, in fact, the opposite. 

While it may be logical that there is a connection between watching violence and partaking of violence, it does not necessarily follow that the two are causally related. Look to other countries that imbibe of the same (violent) media but don't have the same level of violence.

Bottom line, any connection they can make between videogame violence and the Sandy Hook shootings will be extremely tenuous, at the very best.



what i never understand about claims like this is why video games are always isolated as a cause away from other media like books, movies, music etc
if the claim is being made that people are recreating scenarios then just about any media that a person is exposed to can be blamed

edit:  something i didn't even think of is that i could also claim that these people are trying to emulate people hunting animals with rifles or whatever



hsrob said:

I've not really stated anywhere that I thought guns should be removed, in fact, the opposite. 

While it may be logical that there is a connection between watching violence and partaking of violence, it does not necessarily follow that the two are causally related. Look to other countries that imbibe of the same (violent) media but don't have the same level of violence.

Bottom line, any connection they can make between videogame violence and the Sandy Hook shootings will be extremely tenuous, at the very best.

That's true, but at the same time these other countries don't have the social stresses that the states have (I'm not knowledgeable enough to name or explain them, but I know they're there). These are in part due to a breakdown of better values, but are also fed by the material those other countries are also imbibing of. I'm not so sure it's a good mix.



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Violent games in the hands of people like you and me are not dangerous in the least. On the other hand, it is stupid for parents to allow children with these types of mental issues, violent tendencies, and an inability to discern reality from fantasy to play such games as they would clearly affect such individuals in a different way. It is also ridiculously stupid for parents of such children to have guns available to these kids and not locked safely away. The problem here is not the video games or the guns, the problem is the individual, the lack of propor treatment, and a parent that allowed this individual to feed his violent side.

If a person cannot effectively separate fantasy from reality, they should not be playing games like this or use firearms. The fantasy world of the game can creep into their reality very easily in this case. I'm a firm believer that individuals with such issues as well as young children should not be playing violent games. This doesn't call for government action, it calls for parents to actually be parents.

happydolphin said:
hsrob said:

I've not really stated anywhere that I thought guns should be removed, in fact, the opposite. 

While it may be logical that there is a connection between watching violence and partaking of violence, it does not necessarily follow that the two are causally related. Look to other countries that imbibe of the same (violent) media but don't have the same level of violence.

Bottom line, any connection they can make between videogame violence and the Sandy Hook shootings will be extremely tenuous, at the very best.

That's true, but at the same time these other countries don't have the social stresses that the states have (I'm not knowledgeable enough to name or explain them, but I know they're there). These are in part due to a breakdown of better values, but are also fed by the material those other countries are also imbibing of. I'm not so sure it's a good mix.

Sorry but that's just a little too hypothetical for my liking.   If however, we assume for a moment that this factor is a real thing, then my questions is as follows. If American society is someone fundamentally different from everywhere else and people are more stressed which in turn makes them more likely to act out in aggression, why do we also need videogames to explain this violence?

We have a factor (not yet clearly defined here) that can be used to explain violence, which is unique to America.

We have another factor (videogames) that has not been definitely linked to violence, which is not unique to America.

In this scenario why are we looking at videogames first?



Yea i saw them talking about this on the Today show this morning.

hsrob said:

Sorry but that's just a little too hypothetical for my liking.   If however, we assume for a moment that this factor is a real thing, then my questions is as follows. If American society is someone fundamentally different from everywhere else and people are more stressed which in turn makes them more likely to act out in aggression, why do we also need videogames to explain this violence?

We have a factor (not yet clearly defined here) that can be used to explain violence, which is unique to America.

We have another factor (videogames) that has not been definitely linked to violence, which is not unique to America.

In this scenario why are we looking at videogames first?

The question in this hypothetical is, "what caused these "stresses" (and by stresses I don't mean physical stress I mean tensions) and is popular media a part of that root problem?". Compound that to the possibility of the tension and the injected content from modern media causing a reative combination, that's where I see a problem.

In balance, I see violence as tolerable as part of media. The problem is that today it is day in day out an integrated part of popular media and that's perilous in the long term, even for those other countries, imho.



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Yeah it's amazing how a vast majority of people on an internet forum about video games don't think video games are the problem. A lot think guns are the problem. Go on a gun forum and a vast majority don't think guns are the problem but a lot think video games are to blame. Now that's interesting.