My premise is that, being a developer that has had several months experience with the PS4 SDK, I know what launch titles look like - and i know, full well that they're not that impressive when sat along side high end PC software, as was the whole point of the topic - Exclusives and gameplay have nothing to do with the topic or the thread - a fixed closed system does have it's advanages but at the same time it holds more disadvantages, when a technological advance is made, consoles have to wait a generation (or two) to have these advancements.

You go on to say "we can expect a huge improvement over the current consoles", as if i have claimed that isn't the case - take a minute to review my posts, you'll see i actually say that myself, more than once - a huge improbement over CURRENT CONSOLES, but no improvement over well developed PC titles.

My comment regarding ps3/360 fans being butthurt still stands because many, wrongly, feel that the PS4 and 720 will come out and magically be capable of things current high spec PC's are not, While a closed system does have speed benefits, no overheads from drivers, api's OS's and bus interfaces, those speed differences between the specification of the final hardware and that of current high end pc equipment is enough that even the closed system of the next consoles isn't enough to pull it ahead of high spec PC's

Additionally, my comment about them not being next gen was aimed squarely at people saying the WiiU isn't next gen, in that if they can't call the wiiU next gen they shouldnt call the 720/ps4 next gen because they're still behind the PC graphically (as the launch titles will show). It was not an all emcompassing statement to claim theyre not next gen, as you seem to have reacted to, just as many others have, perhaps a knee-jerk reaction without fully comprehending my post - Either way and i'm getting quite tired of saying this - The whole point is - having had experience with the SDK and seeing a few of the launch titles first hand in development - they are not magically better than current high end pc software, at best they are 'similar with some of the settings dropped a little' - eventually this will improve as developers learn the system, but the launch software? not as much.

You're right in the fact that multiplatform titles will indeed end up better for PC gamers too, and the required specs will of course rise too, but you, like many of the others posting here, fail to see the point - the graphical side of the first round of games for the next systems will not impress high end pc gamers, "impressive for a console", sure, but not "oh my god wow that's amazing", not by a long shot.

Additionally, you assume  because i mention the WiiU in defence of it, that i'm a Nintendo fan, which more or less says it all.

but i think most people say that in comparison to the current gen consoles and the consoles we will see from microsoft and sony (especially sony like it seems).

they say "wii u is not next gen, it's only little bit stronger as 360/ps3 and will be much weaker as ps4 and also a decent amount weaker as nextbox"

wii u is nextgen for me for the reason that it followed the wii and is the successor of that console but if people use the "power" to say what is next gen and what not they don't talk about a pc in comparison, they look at the different consoles. 

not sure what pc has to do with that if we talk about gens of consoles.

It's those people that my 'dont call ps4/720 next gen then' comment was aimed at, because we all, unanimously included the Wii in the current gen of Wii, PS3 and 360 despite the obvious difference in power, so we shouldn't discount the WiiU from the 'next gen' tag just because it's power is only roughly that of the 'current gen' Sony and Microsoft consoles.

i'm not sure if people like ethomaz or turkish really think wii was a "this gen" console. maybe they also thought wii was only last gen but no clue.

Such a retarded topic. Consoles are divided into gens because they have successors and their manufacturers upgrade them hardware wise quite a lot every 5-7 years. PC is term for any general purpose computer hardware, it has no successors since it's not a definite hardware, there thousands of different PCs out there, but only 1 PS360. A pentium PC from 1998 is just as much of a PC as a high end 10GB+ RAM alienware computer today, and that PC is nowhere near as powerful as PS360 let alone PS4. PC also aren't upgraded in traditional sense, there are thousands of upgrades out there that can be added to enhance the performance.

I'd also like to see a game from 2006 PC that looks anywhere near The Last of Us or Halo 4

I have been a PC gamer since the early 90's, and this has been the case every time. If you own the newest PC hardware, you will not be impressed graphically by a new console generation. Nothng new in that.

I think your whole point is completely wrong.

As a high end PC gamer myself, i play most games at full settings with FPS between 30 and 60...But even for me apart from increased resolution and a more responsive and smoother feel to the game. There usually isn't much difference between PC and consoles at the moment.

Don't get me wrong the increased res and FPS, sometimes added effects, physics is great.And i find it hard to go back and play the same game on my PS3 when moving from PC...but lets be honest the experience is still pretty much the same. The game design is the same. The levels, the stages, the AI just about everything in the game is the same.

The reason for this is that most AAA games currently being made are developed primarily for consoles and always consider console limitations. A good example of this is next gen game engines. Unreal Engine 4 etc. If PC's are so powerful why haven't we already been playing most of out PC games on the newer engines? And well that's a easy question to answer...the developers didn't even bother upgrading the engines until now. Which just happens to coincide with the releasing of the new consoles.

There are a handful of games (literally a handful) that really push PC's...in fact ever since Crysis released in 2007 there hasn't really been a game that really pushed PC's AS WELL AS THE GAME PLAY. So i really don't understand what Next gen games you are already playing on your PC...In fact I'm 100% sure that just about everybody will be impressed by Uncharted 4 visuals. Myself included. Playing Battlefield 3 with ultra settings at 60FPS wont change that. Why? Because battlefield 3 was desinged entirely from the ground up with PS3 and 360 in mind.

Not to mention that current mid - high ranged GPU's like the 7870, 7950, 660ti's are already enough to power just about every game out there at 1080p with 60FPS.  Having dual  690's is completely unnecessary. There is literally no game at the moment that even comes close to using that amount of power. Sure some games are inefficient and may appear to be straining the system but really not.

I'm seriously intrigued by what "next gen" games people with really high end PC's are playing that everybody else isn't. We could probably phone and ask all 10 of them in a day.

Exactly. Some people think next gen is only about increase in fps and resolution, they're ill informed, we'll see an increase in IQ. As much as runnning BF3 on Ultra is superior to the ps3 version, its not like BF3 Ultra like the BF3 switched to a more advanced engine.

Yet again, another poster who misses the threads point and gets hung up on the whole 'next gen' debate - broken record time. - go back and read the first post fully, and each and every response from me, you'd have saved yourself the time of responding.

Oh and the last bit?, Again, go back and read my posts, and you'll note one covering the stupidity of comparing '2006 software to 2012/2013 software', just as you yourself point out, even an older pc is still a PC, so an older pc from 2006 is perfectly capable of running a 2012/2013 games, just as the older console hardware from 2006 runs software from 2013 - whos making retarded posts now?

Are you really going to come in and say 'okay so the resolution and framerates different but its essentially the same game' ? If resolution and framerates were not such an important factor, why would anyone, at-all, buy a ps4/720?, since as you put it, what does it matter if the games look better if they PLAY the same?

"The reason for this is that most AAA games currently being made are developed primarily for consoles and always consider console limitations. A good example of this is next gen game engines. Unreal Engine 4 etc. If PC's are so powerful why haven't we already been playing most of out PC games on the newer engines? And well that's a easy question to answer...the developers didn't even bother upgrading the engines until now. Which just happens to coincide with the releasing of the new consoles."

Because the engine isn't fully complete yet, and with developers still licensing UE3 for games, Epic are using the additional time to polish the engine - On top of that with new hardware/OS releases recently it's better to make damn sure your engine is compatible - Of course, later this year Fortnite, Daylight and a few other UE4 games will be releasing, and Square Enix have been working on a new title using UE4 for the past few months.

Updates to UE4 are pushed to licensees bi-monthly giving them the very latest stable versions.