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Forums - Politics Discussion - Arm Yourself: The Ultimate Gun Factsheet

killerzX on 20 December 2012
pokoko said:

SamuelRSmith said:
Of course not. But you often see people making the claim that a) banning guns will reduce murder rates, and b) banning guns will reduce suicide, and Japan is frequently used as an example of a low-gun-society.

The fact is that the USA has a higher rate of violence without guns, and Japan still has a very high suicide rate without guns.

As for the edit: well, I wasn't sure. Seems as if you're only jumping to random pages (that, or you're reading the whole thing, and so far have only found two issues worth pointing out, and using to dismiss the whole document). People will read through this thread without clicking the link. They see you write "compare to poverty stricken countries" and think that you're talking about the whole document... when it's like, what, one graph and 10 words out of 100 pages?

I only skimmed it and immediately found sections that I did not like.  My point is that we're talking about a complex issue; little "fact" sheets, from either side, leave out context and large amounts of important information, as well as any information that does not fit their agenda.  That makes this kind of thing nearly useless.  Many of the tricks are well known, such comparing crime in the US to Russia or Mexico, where conditions are much different.

It's like people who point to Texas and say that crime went down after they allowed people to carry concealed weapons.  They present this as proof that more guns means less violence.  What they fail to say, however, is that crime went down all over the country during that same period because there was a push for much tougher laws and longer prison terms.  The murder rate went down in places that DID NOT loosen gun laws.  Do you see my point?  Tidbits of information, especially tailored information, are useless for drawing intelligent conclusions.  Comparing and contrasting other countries without examining all factors makes no sense.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that mass gun bans aren't feasible in the United States but I still hate to see strawman arguments and bad logic used as propaganda.

well they didnt just compare crime in US to russia and Mexico. In fact they were talking talkied about how some countries have low crime and high gun ownership. low crime, low gun ownership. high crime, low gun ownership, high crime, high gun ownership. Their point was you cant compare Japan and US, and come to the conclusion. Gun bans work!!! you have to look deeper than that.

Also they adressed your second point by not only saying crime went down (which in and of itself still proves more guns dont increase crime), but it fell FASTER than the national average.

it seems quite obvious that you didnt read this at all, because they adress all your complaints



Around the Network
Mmmfishtacos on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:


It's obvious by you posting this photo that you haven't been an a non war zone military base. Where no one but an MA or MP will be armed. They will be posted at designated areas with one or two driving around base. The shooter could have choose a spot to give him self the most time to pull of his crime.  If it had been a war zone military base he would have been put down once the first person was shot or even when he first pulled the gun.

Fun fact, I've stayed more than 3 month in Israel last year. They don't have shootings like this. Wanna know why? Because guns are every where. They are on the streets, out side your hotel, out side your restaurant, out side of our work  and yes in the schools.

Israel also routinely commits war crimes. Not the best example.

Israel does what it needs to do to protect it's self. Perspective is everything.



killerzX on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:


It's obvious by you posting this photo that you haven't been an a non war zone military base. Where no one but an MA or MP will be armed. They will be posted at designated areas with one or two driving around base. The shooter could have choose a spot to give him self the most time to pull of his crime.  If it had been a war zone military base he would have been put down once the first person was shot or even when he first pulled the gun.

Fun fact, I've stayed more than 3 month in Israel last year. They don't have shootings like this. Wanna know why? Because guns are every where. They are on the streets, out side your hotel, out side your restaurant, out side of our work  and yes in the schools.

Israel also routinely commits war crimes. Not the best example.


lol no



Mr Khan on 20 December 2012
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:


It's obvious by you posting this photo that you haven't been an a non war zone military base. Where no one but an MA or MP will be armed. They will be posted at designated areas with one or two driving around base. The shooter could have choose a spot to give him self the most time to pull of his crime.  If it had been a war zone military base he would have been put down once the first person was shot or even when he first pulled the gun.

Fun fact, I've stayed more than 3 month in Israel last year. They don't have shootings like this. Wanna know why? Because guns are every where. They are on the streets, out side your hotel, out side your restaurant, out side of our work  and yes in the schools.

Israel also routinely commits war crimes. Not the best example.

Israel does what it needs to do to protect it's self. Perspective is everything.

See, this is the problem with gun mentality. Protecting yourself is always about horning in on someone else's rights.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

killerzX on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:


It's obvious by you posting this photo that you haven't been an a non war zone military base. Where no one but an MA or MP will be armed. They will be posted at designated areas with one or two driving around base. The shooter could have choose a spot to give him self the most time to pull of his crime.  If it had been a war zone military base he would have been put down once the first person was shot or even when he first pulled the gun.

Fun fact, I've stayed more than 3 month in Israel last year. They don't have shootings like this. Wanna know why? Because guns are every where. They are on the streets, out side your hotel, out side your restaurant, out side of our work  and yes in the schools.

Israel also routinely commits war crimes. Not the best example.

Israel does what it needs to do to protect it's self. Perspective is everything.

See, this is the problem with gun mentality. Protecting yourself is always about horning in on someone else's rights.

um if someone that breaks into your house with the intent of raping your children and killing you, you shouldnt protect your self because we shouldnt "horn in on someone else's rights." sorry im going to put two bullets right into their chest.



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Mr Khan on 20 December 2012
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:


It's obvious by you posting this photo that you haven't been an a non war zone military base. Where no one but an MA or MP will be armed. They will be posted at designated areas with one or two driving around base. The shooter could have choose a spot to give him self the most time to pull of his crime.  If it had been a war zone military base he would have been put down once the first person was shot or even when he first pulled the gun.

Fun fact, I've stayed more than 3 month in Israel last year. They don't have shootings like this. Wanna know why? Because guns are every where. They are on the streets, out side your hotel, out side your restaurant, out side of our work  and yes in the schools.

Israel also routinely commits war crimes. Not the best example.

Israel does what it needs to do to protect it's self. Perspective is everything.

See, this is the problem with gun mentality. Protecting yourself is always about horning in on someone else's rights.

um if someone that breaks into your house with the intent of raping your children and killing you, you shouldnt protect your self because we shouldnt "horn in on someone else's rights." sorry im going to put two bullets right into their chest.

In my world, people are better than that.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mmmfishtacos on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:


It's obvious by you posting this photo that you haven't been an a non war zone military base. Where no one but an MA or MP will be armed. They will be posted at designated areas with one or two driving around base. The shooter could have choose a spot to give him self the most time to pull of his crime.  If it had been a war zone military base he would have been put down once the first person was shot or even when he first pulled the gun.

Fun fact, I've stayed more than 3 month in Israel last year. They don't have shootings like this. Wanna know why? Because guns are every where. They are on the streets, out side your hotel, out side your restaurant, out side of our work  and yes in the schools.

Israel also routinely commits war crimes. Not the best example.

Israel does what it needs to do to protect it's self. Perspective is everything.

See, this is the problem with gun mentality. Protecting yourself is always about horning in on someone else's rights.


The problem is Israels neighbors are constantly trying to hurt Israel. They do what they need to do the keep their boarders safe. And send a message they will not be fucked with. If they did not Israel would have fallen a long time ago. And it would be hard for anyone who hasn't spent time there to understand this. I've spent 3 month there, and have many friends from my travels. I understand their perspective and they are defiantly protecting themselves. So no this has nothing to do with the "gun mentality" and someone else rights.



Kasz216 on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:

 

 

 



See, this is the problem with gun mentality. Protecting yourself is always about horning in on someone else's rights.


Khan... you were just wrong.  Just admit it rather then trying to deflect.  You're better then that. 



killerzX on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:
Mmmfishtacos said:
Mr Khan said:

 

um if someone that breaks into your house with the intent of raping your children and killing you, you shouldnt protect your self because we shouldnt "horn in on someone else's rights." sorry im going to put two bullets right into their chest.

In my world, people are better than that.

well i dont live in fantasy land of rainbows and unicorns, i live in the real world. Where there are people intent on doing harm to others, and i intend to make sure that doesnt happen to me or people i care about.

you have already amply demonstrated that you are talking about a topic that you are painfully ignorant on. if i were you i would stop now, before you appear even more foolish.



badgenome on 20 December 2012
Mr Khan said:
killerzX said:

um if someone that breaks into your house with the intent of raping your children and killing you, you shouldnt protect your self because we shouldnt "horn in on someone else's rights." sorry im going to put two bullets right into their chest.

In my world, people are better than that.

I always suspected you didn't inhabit the same reality as the rest of us.