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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What could Microsoft do to beat Sony in Japan next gen?

czecherychestnut said:

man-bear-pig said:
Turkish said:
Sadly, there is nothing they could do, nothing.


What if they buy Sony and cancel the PS4?


If MS wants to go bankrupt they could buy out Sony just to cancel PS4.


Buying Sony wouldn't make MS go bankrupt. They've got $70bn in cash and make $5bn in profit every quarter...

Anyway, your original statement it wrong because if MS did this they they would beat Sony in Japan.


Sony and its assets are worth more than 70bn


Source?

Microsoft could buy a majority shareholding in Sony for $6bn

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE+Balance+Sheet&annual

 

More than $160bn

 

If MS wanna go bankrupt, they should buy out Sony


....I think you missed the $136,000,000 Billion in liabilities ;)

lol.

You also missed that not all of those "assets" are transferable so aren't valued as part of the company in the context of valuing the company's worth.

So yes, approx $5 Billion, give or take $5 Billion, about right.


Whats your point? If Sony were to be taken over, the liabilities disappear? What?


No.

What's YOUR point. You just said Sony was worth more than 160 Billion dollars. When valuing a company, you deduct the liabilities of the company from it's value.

When buying a company and making an offer, you offer what the company is valued at, it goes without saying that you still have to take on the debt/liability once you have taken over the company.

If that really needs saying then I will not converse with you further on the matter except to say that you learn that kind of thing in the first lesson in business studies.

 Buying a company doesn't make its liabilities disappear, where did you hear that from. Its not just assets-liabilities=lets buy this company lol

Actually it is. That's how Harmonix was sold by MTV for $50, or the old Japanese developer Jaleco, sold for $2.

You are both kinda wrong, the value of a company is loosely its assets minus liabilities, however the price to actually buy it outright is its market value PLUS its liabilities, because as Turkish mentioned the liabilities don't just disappear when you buy a company, they just transfer. An example would be a house, if say my house is worth $350k but I owe $250k on it, you couldn't buy my house for $100k because the bank still expects to get its $250k back. If Sony is worth $6 billion on the share market, if you buy it you take on those liabilities, so the total price to you is still market value plus liabilities. 

MS currently could afford to buy Sony based on market value (ie its share price * number of shares Sony has on the market) but then the problem is if Sony doesn't consent to be taken over MS has to do so in a hostile manner, by buying Sony shares as others sell them, and by doing so slowly accrueing an increasing share in Sony. The problem with a hostile takeover is as MS buys Sony shares the increased demand in Sony shares boosts the share price, costing MS an increasing amount to get, as Sony only has a set amount of shares available. A good example is when Porsche tried to take control of VW, but as they continued to buy VW shares the price kept going up (because you can only buy what people are prepared to sell) and eventually they took on so much debt trying to buy VW that they needed to be rescued (ironically by VW, which is why VW now own Porsche). Thats why hostile takeovers are difficult to do, and require massive amounts of capital (far higher than non-hostile takeovers). MS could probably do it, but its shareholders would be pissed as it would be a massive waste of money and would weaken MS considerably. Much better to wait until Sony is bankrupt and then buy the assets when its liquidatedand its assets are sold to pay off its liabilities  (not saying that will happen) . 

 

Anyway on topic, I don't think MS can do anything to win Japan, they tried buying exclusives this gen and it helped a tiny amount but not enough. Really I don't think they should care though, Japan is not that a big a market as it used to be, and they've shown this gen that you can still be successful without doing well in Japan. 

Go back and read the bit Turkish was on about, go and read my post. Where did I say liabilities disappear!!!? That's downright ridiculous.

The basic argument was about Turkish saying Sony is worth 160 Billion dollars, it is not AFTER you deduct the liabilities, which you have to do to get the value of the company.

Is a company that has 1 Million dollars in assets but owes 100 million dollars in debt worth 1 Million dollars?

 

...(According to Turkish it is)

 

That's how he's come to the 160 Billion dollar number.....come on now, this is just embarrasing to read!



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Microsoft CAN build a prescence in Japan, but it would take a lot of things (and money): 

First off, they would have to buy some Japanese studios. Not smaller developers, like Mistwalker I'm talking bigger developers like Level-5 and Sega. If they want to do more in Japan, they would also have to steal top talent away from bigger publishers like Nintendo, Square Enix, and Konami. With the talent they would need at least 2 studios with about 75-100 people built from scratch. 

They would also have to spend BIG $$$ buying eclusives like Nintendo did with Bayonetta 2. Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest are locked up at the moment, so they should look at other franchises like Tales of ___, Dynasty Warriors, Professor Layton (Level 5 owns the IP, so it could happen.), or even Final Fantasy, if they DARE.

Next, they would have to scrap the Xbox brand completely. The Japanese typically buy Japanese, so they should rename their Japanese branch something completely new. They should abandon the MS name completely. The next console should also get an exclusive Japanese design like consoles past, and not be too big or anything like the original Xbox. 

Sony isn't doing well in Japan right now, so if MS makes a big enough splash next gen, things would get better for them, and worse for Sony. 



Change there company name to Nintendosoft.



Make Rapelay 2 a launch title.



fillet said:
czecherychestnut said:

man-bear-pig said:
Turkish said:
Sadly, there is nothing they could do, nothing.


What if they buy Sony and cancel the PS4?


If MS wants to go bankrupt they could buy out Sony just to cancel PS4.


Buying Sony wouldn't make MS go bankrupt. They've got $70bn in cash and make $5bn in profit every quarter...

Anyway, your original statement it wrong because if MS did this they they would beat Sony in Japan.


Sony and its assets are worth more than 70bn


Source?

Microsoft could buy a majority shareholding in Sony for $6bn

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE+Balance+Sheet&annual

 

More than $160bn

 

If MS wanna go bankrupt, they should buy out Sony


....I think you missed the $136,000,000 Billion in liabilities ;)

lol.

You also missed that not all of those "assets" are transferable so aren't valued as part of the company in the context of valuing the company's worth.

So yes, approx $5 Billion, give or take $5 Billion, about right.


Whats your point? If Sony were to be taken over, the liabilities disappear? What?


No.

What's YOUR point. You just said Sony was worth more than 160 Billion dollars. When valuing a company, you deduct the liabilities of the company from it's value.

When buying a company and making an offer, you offer what the company is valued at, it goes without saying that you still have to take on the debt/liability once you have taken over the company.

If that really needs saying then I will not converse with you further on the matter except to say that you learn that kind of thing in the first lesson in business studies.

 Buying a company doesn't make its liabilities disappear, where did you hear that from. Its not just assets-liabilities=lets buy this company lol

Actually it is. That's how Harmonix was sold by MTV for $50, or the old Japanese developer Jaleco, sold for $2.

You are both kinda wrong, the value of a company is loosely its assets minus liabilities, however the price to actually buy it outright is its market value PLUS its liabilities, because as Turkish mentioned the liabilities don't just disappear when you buy a company, they just transfer. An example would be a house, if say my house is worth $350k but I owe $250k on it, you couldn't buy my house for $100k because the bank still expects to get its $250k back. If Sony is worth $6 billion on the share market, if you buy it you take on those liabilities, so the total price to you is still market value plus liabilities. 

MS currently could afford to buy Sony based on market value (ie its share price * number of shares Sony has on the market) but then the problem is if Sony doesn't consent to be taken over MS has to do so in a hostile manner, by buying Sony shares as others sell them, and by doing so slowly accrueing an increasing share in Sony. The problem with a hostile takeover is as MS buys Sony shares the increased demand in Sony shares boosts the share price, costing MS an increasing amount to get, as Sony only has a set amount of shares available. A good example is when Porsche tried to take control of VW, but as they continued to buy VW shares the price kept going up (because you can only buy what people are prepared to sell) and eventually they took on so much debt trying to buy VW that they needed to be rescued (ironically by VW, which is why VW now own Porsche). Thats why hostile takeovers are difficult to do, and require massive amounts of capital (far higher than non-hostile takeovers). MS could probably do it, but its shareholders would be pissed as it would be a massive waste of money and would weaken MS considerably. Much better to wait until Sony is bankrupt and then buy the assets when its liquidatedand its assets are sold to pay off its liabilities  (not saying that will happen) . 

 

Anyway on topic, I don't think MS can do anything to win Japan, they tried buying exclusives this gen and it helped a tiny amount but not enough. Really I don't think they should care though, Japan is not that a big a market as it used to be, and they've shown this gen that you can still be successful without doing well in Japan. 

Go back and read the bit Turkish was on about, go and read my post. Where did I say liabilities disappear!!!? That's downright ridiculous.

The basic argument was about Turkish saying Sony is worth 160 Billion dollars, it is not AFTER you deduct the liabilities, which you have to do to get the value of the company.

Is a company that has 1 Million dollars in assets but owes 100 million dollars in debt worth 1 Million dollars?

 

...(According to Turkish it is)

 

That's how he's come to the 160 Billion dollar number.....come on now, this is just embarrasing to read!

Thats right you never said that, I brought that up and you always ignored it. Suppose MS buys Sony, what happens with the liabilities? MS will be accounted for them. And as czecherchestnut pointed out with a very easy to follow example, MS can't buy Sony, for various reasons. If MS wants to put their whole company at risk just by taking over Sony, they should do it. One would wonder why they don't take over Activision, Nintendo, Google or other companies just because they're worth less.



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holy mother of quote trees



sony might do the job for them at this rate,they won't beat nintendo though will they,i wonder if microsoft have a strategy for japan with the nextbox



                                                                                                                                        Above & Beyond

   

fillet said:
czecherychestnut said:

man-bear-pig said:
Turkish said:
Sadly, there is nothing they could do, nothing.


What if they buy Sony and cancel the PS4?


If MS wants to go bankrupt they could buy out Sony just to cancel PS4.


Buying Sony wouldn't make MS go bankrupt. They've got $70bn in cash and make $5bn in profit every quarter...

Anyway, your original statement it wrong because if MS did this they they would beat Sony in Japan.


Sony and its assets are worth more than 70bn


Source?

Microsoft could buy a majority shareholding in Sony for $6bn

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=SNE+Balance+Sheet&annual

 

More than $160bn

 

If MS wanna go bankrupt, they should buy out Sony


....I think you missed the $136,000,000 Billion in liabilities ;)

lol.

You also missed that not all of those "assets" are transferable so aren't valued as part of the company in the context of valuing the company's worth.

So yes, approx $5 Billion, give or take $5 Billion, about right.


Whats your point? If Sony were to be taken over, the liabilities disappear? What?


No.

What's YOUR point. You just said Sony was worth more than 160 Billion dollars. When valuing a company, you deduct the liabilities of the company from it's value.

When buying a company and making an offer, you offer what the company is valued at, it goes without saying that you still have to take on the debt/liability once you have taken over the company.

If that really needs saying then I will not converse with you further on the matter except to say that you learn that kind of thing in the first lesson in business studies.

 Buying a company doesn't make its liabilities disappear, where did you hear that from. Its not just assets-liabilities=lets buy this company lol

Actually it is. That's how Harmonix was sold by MTV for $50, or the old Japanese developer Jaleco, sold for $2.

You are both kinda wrong, the value of a company is loosely its assets minus liabilities, however the price to actually buy it outright is its market value PLUS its liabilities, because as Turkish mentioned the liabilities don't just disappear when you buy a company, they just transfer. An example would be a house, if say my house is worth $350k but I owe $250k on it, you couldn't buy my house for $100k because the bank still expects to get its $250k back. If Sony is worth $6 billion on the share market, if you buy it you take on those liabilities, so the total price to you is still market value plus liabilities. 

MS currently could afford to buy Sony based on market value (ie its share price * number of shares Sony has on the market) but then the problem is if Sony doesn't consent to be taken over MS has to do so in a hostile manner, by buying Sony shares as others sell them, and by doing so slowly accrueing an increasing share in Sony. The problem with a hostile takeover is as MS buys Sony shares the increased demand in Sony shares boosts the share price, costing MS an increasing amount to get, as Sony only has a set amount of shares available. A good example is when Porsche tried to take control of VW, but as they continued to buy VW shares the price kept going up (because you can only buy what people are prepared to sell) and eventually they took on so much debt trying to buy VW that they needed to be rescued (ironically by VW, which is why VW now own Porsche). Thats why hostile takeovers are difficult to do, and require massive amounts of capital (far higher than non-hostile takeovers). MS could probably do it, but its shareholders would be pissed as it would be a massive waste of money and would weaken MS considerably. Much better to wait until Sony is bankrupt and then buy the assets when its liquidatedand its assets are sold to pay off its liabilities  (not saying that will happen) . 

 

Anyway on topic, I don't think MS can do anything to win Japan, they tried buying exclusives this gen and it helped a tiny amount but not enough. Really I don't think they should care though, Japan is not that a big a market as it used to be, and they've shown this gen that you can still be successful without doing well in Japan. 

Go back and read the bit Turkish was on about, go and read my post. Where did I say liabilities disappear!!!? That's downright ridiculous.

The basic argument was about Turkish saying Sony is worth 160 Billion dollars, it is not AFTER you deduct the liabilities, which you have to do to get the value of the company.

Is a company that has 1 Million dollars in assets but owes 100 million dollars in debt worth 1 Million dollars?

 

...(According to Turkish it is)

 

That's how he's come to the 160 Billion dollar number.....come on now, this is just embarrasing to read!

My apologies Fillet, I was more replying to Mr Khan's comment regarding how MTV bought Harmonix for $50, and with the long reply chain I ended up implying you said the liabilities disappeared, when indeed you didn't. 

However, though assets minus liabilities is a good guide to calculating the value of a company, at the end of the day a company is valued at whatever the market thinks its worth. A company could have $100mil in assets and no debt but be worth $50 million on the stockmarket, for a whole variety of reasons, and the opposite is also possible. Thats because the share price factors in future earning potentials and future opportunities as well as the companies assets and liabilities. Facebook is an example of a company worth heaps (well was worth heaps) but does not have a lot of assets or debt, its price is bouyed up by the expected future earnings analyists believe Facebook can make. 

Anyway, the only point I'm really trying to make is that taking over Sony is harder than some people on here make it out to be because they don't seem to understand the full picture (not saying that I do, I just think I understand more than people like Mr Khan in this). 





Nothing. The nextbox will probably sell even worse in japan then the 360 did.