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Forums - Gaming - Reasons why next gen consoles don't have to be much more powerful

disolitude on 14 November 2012
Soleron said:
disolitude said:
...

I think its safe to assume we will get the latest features on the next gen consoles. DX11.1, tesselation, FXAA should be a no brainer. So in that regard, we will be on par with PCs.

Also, the GPU in next gen consoles should have much much better GFLOPS per Watt performance than a GTX 480. We may see 80% of 480 performance power with a ~80 Watt TDP GPU. GTX 480 was a power hungry beast and had something like a 300 Watt TDP lol...

I think the closest GPU available on the market today that is ready for consoles is the AMD 7770. Of course, next year will bring the new set of GPU's which will be even more efficient so we may see 7850 like performance under a 100 watt TDP.

Sony probably won't get DX11.1 features, it's Win8 exclusive.

I'm not convinced perf/watt will be much better, because it will be 28nm at best compared to 40nm (so at best 50% savings, more like 30-40%). Even 80W power use would be unacceptable, because the PS3 at launch was hot/loud/bulky and only consumed 130W under load including CPU and storage. Also there will not be mid-cycle die shrinks or not as many because 22nm is basically end of the line for everyone except Intel.

The next set of GPUs will not be more efficient, since they are also on 28nm and the architecture for both is pretty close to optimal/general-purpose right now.

If the PS3 was hot and loud at 130W, what was 360 which consumed close to 200W under load? :)

I agree that we won't see too much of an improvement from next gen GPU's but I don't think 80W is too much for a console GPU to consume. 150W power consumption at load for these consoles isn't really that bad and frankly I don't see them getting it lower unless they end up going with an APU like design something like that. In which case 1080p@60 fps may be too much to ask for



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Jaywood2010 on 14 November 2012
sales2099 said:
This sounds like a compromise thread. MS and Sony next gen systems should be on par with gaming PCs. We must hit the graphics wall


Will not happen.  The price would be through the roof if it was like that.  Sure it could prob get up to BF3 graphicly on PC  but a lot of that is because game devlopers don't directly develop for PC.




       

archbrix on 14 November 2012
CGI-Quality said:
JayWood2010 said:
sales2099 said:
This sounds like a compromise thread. MS and Sony next gen systems should be on par with gaming PCs. We must hit the graphics wall


Will not happen.  The price would be through the roof if it was like that.  Sure it could prob get up to BF3 graphicly on PC  but a lot of that is because game devlopers don't directly develop for PC.

You do have to admit it would be lovely to see a home console pull off BF3 on Ultra. ;)

Oh, I'd love to see Zelda, Uncharted and Halo running at CryEngine 3 level with full effects/highest possible settings/60fps/1080p (or higher).  But unfortunately that's not a scenario that's going to happen with consoles in the 8th gen.



disolitude on 14 November 2012
archbrix said:
CGI-Quality said:
JayWood2010 said:
sales2099 said:
This sounds like a compromise thread. MS and Sony next gen systems should be on par with gaming PCs. We must hit the graphics wall


Will not happen.  The price would be through the roof if it was like that.  Sure it could prob get up to BF3 graphicly on PC  but a lot of that is because game devlopers don't directly develop for PC.

You do have to admit it would be lovely to see a home console pull off BF3 on Ultra. ;)

Oh, I'd love to see Zelda, Uncharted and Halo running at CryEngine 3 level with full effects/highest possible settings/60fps/1080p (or higher).  But unfortunately that's not a scenario that's going to happen with consoles in the 8th gen.


I don't know if i'd go as far as want Zelda in CryEngine 3(too sterile for Zelda) but I'd love that kind of level of detail in a Zelda game.

My dream, which is only a dream that I don't expect to see happen is for consoles to offer flexibility similar to PCs.

Game runs at 1080p@30 fps and you want more FPS? Drop the resolution down to 720p... Or crossfire 2 consoles. lol



Jaywood2010 on 14 November 2012
CGI-Quality said:
JayWood2010 said:
sales2099 said:
This sounds like a compromise thread. MS and Sony next gen systems should be on par with gaming PCs. We must hit the graphics wall


Will not happen.  The price would be through the roof if it was like that.  Sure it could prob get up to BF3 graphicly on PC  but a lot of that is because game devlopers don't directly develop for PC.

You do have to admit it would be lovely to see a home console pull off BF3 on Ultra. ;)

Lol Yeah that would be pretty amazing lol  That is reachable over time as developers get more and more use to the systems hardware.   I'm trying to think of a game that I think the next gen systems would be comparable to out of the gate realisticly.  Help me out here lol It also depends if developers are shooring for 30fps or 60




       

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archbrix on 14 November 2012
disolitude said:
archbrix said:

Oh, I'd love to see Zelda, Uncharted and Halo running at CryEngine 3 level with full effects/highest possible settings/60fps/1080p (or higher).  But unfortunately that's not a scenario that's going to happen with consoles in the 8th gen.

I don't know if i'd go as far as want Zelda in CryEngine 3(too sterile for Zelda) but I'd love that kind of level of detail in a Zelda game.

My dream, which is only a dream that I don't expect to see happen is for consoles to offer flexibility similar to PCs.

Game runs at 1080p@30 fps and you want more FPS? Drop the resolution down to 720p... Or crossfire 2 consoles. lol

Yeah, I just meant that level of visual fidelity for Zelda.

That kind of flexibility would be welcome IMO.  I remember always playing Perfect Dark on N64 with the sharper visuals turned off in favor of a smoother framerate.



Slimebeast on 14 November 2012

Next gen won't be 1080p at 60fps because it's a waste of resources.

Resolution and framerate determines only a fraction of image quality.

Compare this:

to this:

They're both in 1080p. So what?



torok on 14 November 2012
ithis said:
Talking about DX11 and DX12 in consoles is not relevant I think. Maybe for the xBox(initially) but not for any Nintendo or Playstation console. Remember that DX11 and OpenGL 4.whatever are APIs. The trick with consoles is that devs can and do ignore/bypass these and go straight to the hardware.
Or am I wrong?


What people want to say with DX11 in consoles is that all new consoles should be able to have the same level of graphical capabilities on their APIs and hardware that DX11 has. Consoles uses specific graphical APIs developed for them to allow a greater level of performance.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

DarkTemplar on 14 November 2012

I would like to add that depending of the game the difference between 1080p and 720p cannot be huge unless you have really big TV. This is why I expect some games to be rendered at 720p (which is already better than most of current gen games) so the developers can save some GPU power and RAM memory to improve others aspects of the games.



disolitude on 14 November 2012
Slimebeast said:

Next gen won't be 1080p at 60fps because it's a waste of resources.

Resolution and framerate determines only a fraction of image quality.

Compare this:

 

to this:

oth in 1080p. So what?

Not sure if you're being funny as one of those videos is 17 years old and the other is less than a year old. You should follow PC gaming trends more as those usually signal console gaming to come. Current PC trends are 120-144 hz monitors and eyefinity/surround. So higher frame rate and higher resolution...

As someone that has a true 120 hz monitor in order to play twitch games on PC at well over 60 frames per second I can tell you that frame rate makes a world of difference. I see 60 fps becoming the norm, even if 720p resolution is used. They can mask lack of resolution with effects and AA, but not lack of frame rate.