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Forums - Gaming Discussion - European Union court: Consumers have the right to re-sell their Digitally Distributed games

NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
I don't like this ruling, bad for property rights.



100% serious.

Before you buy something, it is first the producer's property. If they want to put on obligations (such as not being able to resell) that you agree to, then the producer should be able to enforce those obligations. If you don't agree to those obligations, don't continue with the transaction. You have no right to play games, but that have property rights.



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Sometimes, I'm actually glad to live in the Eurozone.



SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
I don't like this ruling, bad for property rights.



100% serious.

Before you buy something, it is first the producer's property. If they want to put on obligations (such as not being able to resell) that you agree to, then the producer should be able to enforce those obligations. If you don't agree to those obligations, don't continue with the transaction. You have no right to play games, but that have property rights.


But after you buy something, it is your property and no one has any business restricting your property rights. That is the definition of buying as far as I know (and the court seems to agree).



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
I don't like this ruling, bad for property rights.



100% serious.

Before you buy something, it is first the producer's property. If they want to put on obligations (such as not being able to resell) that you agree to, then the producer should be able to enforce those obligations. If you don't agree to those obligations, don't continue with the transaction. You have no right to play games, but that have property rights.


But after you buy something, it is your property. That is the definition of buying as far as I know.

 

Depends.

If, when you exchange the property, you sign a contract stating that you must use the property in a certain way, then you must stick to that contract.

Also, if you buy a license (which most software is sold as), the software is still not your property. You may be able to sell the license, unless it is part of the agreement that you signed (clicking I Agree, or whatever).



SamuelRSmith said:

Depends.

If, when you exchange the property, you sign a contract stating that you must use the property in a certain way, then you must stick to that contract.

Also, if you buy a license (which most software is sold as), the software is still not your property. You may be able to sell the license, unless it is part of the agreement that you signed (clicking I Agree, or whatever).


You can't sign your rights away in a contract (even if you do so willingly and voluntarily). Companies like to pretend that what they write in these "license agreements" is gospel, but it's only gospel as far as it doesn't contradict the law.

To give the usual example if I sign a contract saying that you will torture me, that doesn't cease my right to live without being harmed by you.

I don't see the distinction between buying a "software" and a "license". Either I can re-sell the "software" to someone else or I can sell the "license". The effect is the same, after I sell it I can't use it and the other person can.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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NJ5 said:
mantlepiecek said:

The difference between a used digital copy and a used physical copy is that the physical copy gets damaged with time, the digital copy remains the same, therefore there would be a true competition to the manufacturer himself. For someone like steam which has so many deals I can see it being unfair.

There are other things in this world that don't really get damaged with time, and the makers of those things still manage to stay in business even if those things are sold and resold. To give one example, most artistic paintings don't get damaged with time (quite the contrary, they tend to increase in value over time, even when they need restoration).

The games industry thinks they're special in this regard, but hopefully this idea starts going down with court decisions like this one...

As for unfairness, I think the REALLY unfair thing is that gamers own stuff that they don't need anymore and they're not allowed to sell it.


That's a horrible example, paintings constantly deteriate and require maintenance to increase their lifespan, even well maintained they will eventually be destroyed unless they are presserved in extremely expensive environmentally sealed rooms. Also much of the value of artworks are due to their scarcity, something that certainly won't be the case for digital items.



nanarchy said:
NJ5 said:
mantlepiecek said:

The difference between a used digital copy and a used physical copy is that the physical copy gets damaged with time, the digital copy remains the same, therefore there would be a true competition to the manufacturer himself. For someone like steam which has so many deals I can see it being unfair.

There are other things in this world that don't really get damaged with time, and the makers of those things still manage to stay in business even if those things are sold and resold. To give one example, most artistic paintings don't get damaged with time (quite the contrary, they tend to increase in value over time, even when they need restoration).

The games industry thinks they're special in this regard, but hopefully this idea starts going down with court decisions like this one...

As for unfairness, I think the REALLY unfair thing is that gamers own stuff that they don't need anymore and they're not allowed to sell it.


That's a horrible example, paintings constantly deteriate and require maintenance to increase their lifespan, even well maintained they will eventually be destroyed unless they are presserved in extremely expensive environmentally sealed rooms.

But the painters could pull a "game publisher" and cry that people maintaining their paintings are unfairly stealing their money :D

"If he wasn't maintaining my painting I would be able to sell another one!!"

Game publishers trying to restrict your lawful right to sell something you own because it may harm them is as ridiculous as that...



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Well, considering they're asking something that isn't feasible, This's the end of convenient digital distribution in Europe.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Cant agree more with the above post.



Jumpin said:
Well, considering they're asking something that isn't feasible, This's the end of convenient digital distribution in Europe.

Care to explain why it isn't feasible?