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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Destructoid: BioWare writer's vagina versus the Internet

coolbeans said:
Panama said:
She deserves all the criticism she gets. She once stated the worst part about her job was having to test the games, because she doesn't like videogames. What a great example of the state of the industry and the people hired to work in it.

She's a writer.  What part of her contract obligates her to like playing the games she's writing about?  If anything, that just proves she's less distracted at the office.

Hah, I was hoping for someone to bring up that argument. She's not even qualified as a writer either beyond an English degree. The crux of her work revolves poorly written fanfiction and a terrible novel no one bought. She wouldn't seem out of place partying with Stephanie Meyer. Also Dragon Age 2 was unanimously hated by the fanbase, or at least those within the fanbase that have at least played more Bioware RPGs than just Dragon Age Origins. Poor writing was a heavy component of that animosity. Granted she didn't write all the dialogue, everything within the game was poorly written regardless. You don't seem to get it, she still has to test run these games with her dialogue to see if it works to her liking. With no experience with gaming and story telling within games, she wouldn't be able to tell if something comes across as laughably incoherent and poorly written in the context of a WRPG. You don't need to look beyond DA:O to see that DA2 had terrible dialogue, but if you wish to see an even greater disparity between the quality of writing, pick up and play some Planescape Torment, it was made back in a day when dialogue and storytelling in RPGs actually meant something. Perhaps you don't need to care about videogames to write for videogames, but you at the least need a good writing portfolio if you are to work on RPGs, and she does not sport one as far as I know.

The fact she went so far to defend her poor writing, as to bring up her vagina as the source of the hatred from RPG fans, not only goes to show she has the mentality of a teeny bopper that just unearthed feminism for the first time, but also if you saw the twitter replies, you'd see that EA's PR was supporting this woman's pathetic response, and continuously told everyone saying anything negative towards her, 'get fucked'. I can't wait to see how this whole fiasco will unravel.



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Nem said:

Theres alot of hate going around on Bioware for no good reason.

I believe they touched a nerve challenging Blizzard on MMO dominance... seems like blizzard has a legion of dedicated fanboys that go around bashing everything bioware.

It really is insane. Bioware was and still is an incredible developer. I am going to keep enjoying their games and beeing a fan. Those that dont like it can move along.

 

In particular about this lady, shes a writer, not a gamer. You are not required to enjoy games to be able to right a good story.

Yes, but her asserting that games should have a "skip action" option could be interpreted to have undertones of arrogance, coupled with her stated dislike for gameplay. To wit, the idea would be "We should make it so that games can skip the boring crap i don't like and go for what i prefer," but if "the boring crap" is the game itself, then we have a problem. It almost sounds like non-gamer arrogance against videogames.

It is true that one's ability as a writer endures despite whatever medium they're writing in (books, TV/movies, games), however one has to acknowledge that the mediums are distinct. In books, obviously, writing is the sole focal point. In movies, good writing works on an equal footing to the execution (cinematography and acting). In games, however, good writing should be subordinate to the gameplay and should in no way be considered the star attraction

Except in visual novels (the more text-heavy dating sims and the like), but that is another matter.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

coolbeans said:
Panama said:
coolbeans said:
Panama said:
She deserves all the criticism she gets. She once stated the worst part about her job was having to test the games, because she doesn't like videogames. What a great example of the state of the industry and the people hired to work in it.

She's a writer.  What part of her contract obligates her to like playing the games she's writing about?  If anything, that just proves she's less distracted at the office.

Hah, I was hoping for someone to bring up that argument. She's not even qualified as a writer either beyond an English degree. The crux of her work revolves poorly written fanfiction and a terrible novel no one bought. She wouldn't seem out of place partying with Stephanie Meyer. Also Dragon Age 2 was unanimously hated by the fanbase, or at least those within the fanbase that have at least played more Bioware RPGs than just Dragon Age Origins. Poor writing was a heavy component of that animosity. Granted she didn't write all the dialogue, everything within the game was poorly written regardless. You don't seem to get it, she still has to test run these games with her dialogue to see if it works to her liking. With no experience with gaming and story telling within games, she wouldn't be able to tell if something comes across as laughably incoherent and poorly written in the context of a WRPG. You don't need to look beyond DA:O to see that DA2 had terrible dialogue, but if you wish to see an even greater disparity between the quality of writing, pick up and play some Planescape Torment, it was made back in a day when dialogue and storytelling in RPGs actually meant something. Perhaps you don't need to care about videogames to write for videogames, but you at the least need a good writing portfolio if you are to work on RPGs, and she does not sport one as far as I know.

The fact she went so far to defend her poor writing, as to bring up her vagina as the source of the hatred from RPG fans, not only goes to show she has the mentality of a teeny bopper that just unearthed feminism for the first time, but also if you saw the twitter replies, you'd see that EA's PR was supporting this woman's pathetic response, and continuously told everyone saying anything negative towards her, 'get fucked'. I can't wait to see how this whole fiasco will unravel.

Just to point out, I've never cared to play the DA series :P. 

First bold:  I see where you're going with this, but you technically don't need experience in RPGs to tell whether or not your dialouge works well after you've heard the VAs.  Film, TV, or Plays can give the same amount of experience. 

Second bold:  Essentially read most of what I needed to see and was impressed.  I'm not sure how it ties in with the discussion though.  I'm only trying to tackle the idea of having to "play rpgs in order to write them". 

Third bold:  At least we can concede to that point then :P.  I'm not trying to defend her writing since I don't even know which storyline she's involved in writing for TOR.  Since I've heard many other respectable posters criticize her work, I wouldn't be surprised if I found her writing to be sub par.

 

That's fair enough. I still personally believe the best writing is from those with a passion for the very genre they're writing for. WRPGs afterall a lot of the time tie in closely with the high fantasy genre of novels. So while one may not care for videogames, that sort of writing is not new to them. They basically got Hepler to delve into a genre she wouldn't have a bloody clue about, to put it bluntly.



MrBubbles said:
"I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either."

i like this lady.


this



Quick notes:

- It's so interesting that some of the posters that I am annoyed by the most here are taking the position they are taking. That clarifies for me that it's not about fanboyism as much as it is maturity.

- This whole controversy is shameful, but I don't (and never EVER will) go to 4chan as the reputation for that community is reproachable. BUT I am disappointed in the general response I see here, a community that I am a part of and contribute to regularly. Considering what she said (which wasn't aimed at anyone before the attacks came pouring in), there is no way she deserves this type of treatment. Excusing it as by saying "well, it's the internet so what do you expect" only adds to the problem. We should not ever accept this kind of behavior. It's counterproductive as a species.

- Can't wait for ME3!



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I havent enjoyed a Bioware game from Neverwinter Nights (2002 ish) onward, but being a girl, I feel sorry for her. No one should have to go through this & it really does just make gamers look bad as a group.



PLAYSTATION NATION LADY OF JRPGS

Favourite Games of 2013 1.Tomb Raider(PS3) 2.Atelier Ayesha(PS3) 3.Virtues Last Reward (Vita)

you know...one of my favourite authors, who also has written the story for a recent game, does not read books or play games.... and yet she is very talented at writing for both.

the ability to write is all thats needed to write.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

Nsanity said:

Destructoid

 

Hepler is a BioWare writer and woke up one day to discover the entire Internet hated her. A number of online communities recently started dogpiling on the lady, accusing her of "ruining" BioWare games with her writing. She's also received a lot of heat for admitting that she doesn't like to play games -- certainly a requirement if your job is to craft narrative (sarcasm). 

By far her greatest "crime" was suggesting that games should let the player skip combat, stating: "Games almost always include a way to "button through" dialogue without paying attention, because they understand that some players don't enjoy listening to dialogue and they don't want to stop their fun. Yet they persist in practically coming into your living room and forcing you to play through the combats even if you're a player who only enjoys the dialogue."

 

Welllllllll I think these things in particular deserve some attention. Firstly writing story / narrative for games is not the same as writing story for other mediums. Novelists don;t necessarily make good screenwriters, good screenwriters don't necessarily make for good playwrights. And of course the best writers have a passion for the medium in which they write. So if someone doesn't like playing video games one wonders if the only reason such a person is in game writing is because they are not actually good enough writers to write for the medium for which they have a passion. In which case we really don't want them in game writing if there is a general desire among those in the industry and gamers to want to raise the quality of gaming as a story / narrative medium.

Re skipping combat. Well if you did that you'd expose the game writing for the rather poor standard that it has currently...might be a good thing in the long run. But it's about as sensible a suggestion in general as suggesting you should be able to skip through the action scenes in a Terminator movie. Besides, you can just see the dialogue if you want, it's called Youtube, and many of the best games have pretty much every key dialogue / dramatic scene posted on Youtube. I watched pretty much every key scene in all the Legacy of Kain games on Youtube.

What's more, good game developers DO allow you to play all the cut scenes without having to play through the game, or rather without having to play through the game more than once: God of War, Legacy of Kain (Defiance at least), Uncharted 1 and 2, Valkyria Chronicles. Didn't one of the FF games actually more or less do this? You set up your autocombat routine and let it run, so that it was more like an action scene rather than game combat.

I can understand the writer's frustration that they put effort into crafting something good only to have people skip through it. I think the answer to that is the same as the answer to used games: if you make a good product people will value it. So write better and fewer people will chose the skip option.

In the final analysis game writing isn't good enough for people to play games solely for the story, so for the time being at least a "skip the core gaming element" button has no real audience.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

And this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is why we don't get cool things.

Devs (and writers) should not have to be personal game slaves to every gamer on the planet; it's impossible.
Pissed off gamers should have a go making their own games if they're annoyed with everyone elses.



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

Aj_habfan said:

Boo fucking hoo. Was this article written by her brother?


Let me clarify that I do feel bad for her and most of the hate is probably undeserved, it's just the whole "SHAME ON YOU!" approach the article took that I am annoyed at.