To be frank we've seen that quality games do sell. If a 3rd party publisher could actually be bothered to put out a Wii game that wasn't a cobbled together piece of trash hastily assembled by their 10th tier developing team, then maybe it might sell well.

People are discerning when it comes to spending money. If a 3rd party makes a game with shoddy graphics, terrible gameplay, and which is buggy as bayou in summer, then they've only got themselves to blame when it sells terribly. The reason Nintendo games sell is because they are fun, well-polished, and show the time, resource, and effort that was put into them.

And as for the whole casuals vs hardcore. Get over it. Casuals outnumber hardcore gamers by so much it isn't even funny. Even if they buy less games the industry NEEDS them to grow and sustain itself. Does anyone honestly think everyone who bought HALO 3 was a "hardcore" gamer? And what about GTA? Are all the people who bought that hardcore as well. Not a chance. Casuals drove the market's growth and they're here to stay. And casual though they may be, they can still see when a game is terrible. I don't need to be an engineer to tell you when a pipe has burst, do I? I just look at the puddles of water on the ground. All casuals have to do is give them a game a go. If it's terrible they'll work that out themselves. Casual does not mean stupid.

Chadius said: Bodhesatva, you are correct, third party companies are pretty much afraid of the Wii. They expected it to fail, hate the change in game culture it presents, and Sony gave them a much bigger (console-wide) marketshare to swim in (ie Sony First Party <<<<<<< Nintendo First Party.) There are a few situations that can result from this. 1) New 3rd party companies step up. Many 3rd party publishers have died (Acclaim) and others have stepped in to fill the void. If the "Old Guard" is willing to ignore the money on the table, the new kids will sweep in and take over. 2) No growth. Companies can ignore the Wii and make games for the other consoles. They might break even while Nintendo prints more money. Stockholders are going to eventually ask "why aren't you making games for the Wii?" And they'd better think up a good answer. Especially if the Wii's userbase greatly dominates the others. Basically, I don't see how 3rd party companies will be able to ignore the Wii. Consumers don't care about who published the game. Most don't care about developers, either (see Guitar Hero.) All they care about is where the good games are. Nintendo will have many high-quality games with a huge userbase, and that is where game sales will go.

Totally agree Chadius - for every door that existing third parties see as closing third there's a new door opening, Wiiware's launch this year will give so many smaller setups a chance to approach the Wii, get a code base, game engine in place, test the waters, see the feedback and if it catches on then possibly release improved "polished versions" of their first attempts. On top of this there's probably also PC devs now looking at the Wii (I predict late 08, early 09 is gonna be big for point and click style games) and it's setup and thinking "fantastic - everyones played PS2 - Wii ports to death so lets port some old PC games over to the Wii and test the waters with console gaming. By the time these Codemasters etc do a U turn then they'll be a whole new playing field and they'll get left behind.

Bod, I would assume how it will turn out the following:

Some of the 3rd parties who dont see the shift will be forced out of business. Most will, after one or two more bad years, realize they have to shift. Then they will all start supporting Nintendo more - this of course assuming the ps3 360 market cannot support them sufficiently.

Coadmasters has made some great games people have already talked about Micro Machines they where great games for both mega drive & PS 1. Also the rally games have been great as well.

 

 

Played_Out said: He is not refusing to believe the Wii's success. His points are entirely valid. Successful marketing of a novelty product does not constitute a revolution, and casual gamers will not remain for the long haul like the hardcore. That's just common sense. It's a good thing that not all developers are blindly following the money. It shows they have a little thing called integrity.

I can't believe it!! A non fanboy who speaks sense on here.

Played_Out said: He is not refusing to believe the Wii's success. His points are entirely valid. Successful marketing of a novelty product does not constitute a revolution, and casual gamers will not remain for the long haul like the hardcore. That's just common sense. It's a good thing that not all developers are blindly following the money. It shows they have a little thing called integrity.

I really hope for your sake you're just 12 and that's why you have such a naive view of the world, because that's just silly. Developers, like any business are in this for the money, integrity doesn't pay the bills. The dev's that rant about the Wii being crappy are more likely annoyed they tied themselves to possibly the wrong system and are hoping that they didn't make the wrong choice.

Also, like it or not the "casuals" outnumber the hardcore by a significant margin, so that's where the money lies. Just ask Blizzard how much they love having a game that panders to the casuals, and they'll tell you to hold on while they count their money.

Another point to consider: many 3rd party developers have been part of the multimillion game budget arms race for the past 5 years. As part of that race, they have built up sizable infrastructure: expensive graphics departments, cutting edge facilities, massive support staffs, and well payed CEOs. Unfortunately for them, these things are not easy to just shut off. Firing people, downgrading company assets, etc. is a painful process that no CEO willfully wants to execute.

It seems to me that many companies were not only unprepared for Wii to be such a success but also are unable and unwilling to make the kinds of changes to be a competitor in the Wii market. Which leaves Wii 3rd party support in a strange situation: companies with the resources to make polished games for the Wii are afraid to do so, companies with the creativity and ingenuity to make games that truly deserve to be on the console are not yet able to polish their games to the level that the hardcore audience expects.

I still think the issues discussed in this thread are the most interesting facet of the new generation of consoles. Sit back and enjoy the show.

Griffin said: ... just imagine what SMG or Zelda could of been if Nintendo invested more then the bare minimum into their games.

 I'm sorry I think I just feignted from the level of awesomeness that Nintendo putting even more effort into those games would yield.  As much as I would like to have an out of body experience every time I play a game, I doubt it is possible to squeeze water from a rock.

gawalls said: Chadius said: Bodhesatva, you are correct, third party companies are pretty much afraid of the Wii. They expected it to fail, hate the change in game culture it presents, and Sony gave them a much bigger (console-wide) marketshare to swim in (ie Sony First Party <<<<<<< Nintendo First Party.) There are a few situations that can result from this. 1) New 3rd party companies step up. Many 3rd party publishers have died (Acclaim) and others have stepped in to fill the void. If the "Old Guard" is willing to ignore the money on the table, the new kids will sweep in and take over. 2) No growth. Companies can ignore the Wii and make games for the other consoles. They might break even while Nintendo prints more money. Stockholders are going to eventually ask "why aren't you making games for the Wii?" And they'd better think up a good answer. Especially if the Wii's userbase greatly dominates the others. Basically, I don't see how 3rd party companies will be able to ignore the Wii. Consumers don't care about who published the game. Most don't care about developers, either (see Guitar Hero.) All they care about is where the good games are. Nintendo will have many high-quality games with a huge userbase, and that is where game sales will go. Totally agree Chadius - for every door that existing third parties see as closing third there's a new door opening, Wiiware's launch this year will give so many smaller setups a chance to approach the Wii, get a code base, game engine in place, test the waters, see the feedback and if it catches on then possibly release improved "polished versions" of their first attempts. On top of this there's probably also PC devs now looking at the Wii (I predict late 08, early 09 is gonna be big for point and click style games) and it's setup and thinking "fantastic - everyones played PS2 - Wii ports to death so lets port some old PC games over to the Wii and test the waters with console gaming. By the time these Codemasters etc do a U turn then they'll be a whole new playing field and they'll get left behind.

 I have to agree with both of you. If these bigger developers don't want the money, the smaller and indy devs will definately be there to grab that cash. It saddens me that this industry which is supposed to be the most creative industry, has little to no creativity. When i saw the wimmote, it got my creative juices flowing. Its never been about grarhics or power, its always been about creativity,depth, content, and above all fun, those things are timeless. (super mario 3 says hi).

 

 

Sometimes BornFirst it takes something like the Wii to "shake up the industry" and get things moving again - look at the 360's range in titles, I bought one in May cos I love FPS and already i'm sick to death of them.