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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama's America, getting better or worse? He promised change - now we are getting it.

Seece on 14 December 2011
BasilZero said:
Seece said:
Player1x3 said:
Seece said:

Yeah i know of Free Speech, it's what the majority of people thinks gives them the right to say whatever they like. There are such other things such as respect, impartiality and hate speech though.

It doesn't have to be physically forcing, to have something pushed on you. A person like me, what do you mean, someone who doesn't like religion? It doesn't bother me that much, most of my family are religious and I get on fine with them. I'm able to put it to the side.

Actually yes, that's exactly what free speech does - allowing you to say what you want, ESPECIALLY if its meant in good way, like president saying ''God bless America''. Otherwise, who gets to draw the line between what's ok to say, and what's not?  What you find offensive is an for example, totally ok for an Westboro Baptist and vice versa. mrstickball explains it better than me, so i'll just leave it to him.

And if you find a christian president of a country whos motto is In God we trust saying to his dominating christian nation God bless America ''pushing'', my tip would be to move some place else


Well i don't live in America, nor would it bother me enough to move country as I already said. I don't care if the majority call themselves Christians (most arnt practicing regardless) he should still be impartial, I don't expect religious people to understand that though.

It's pretty easy to figure out what is offensive and what isn't, which is exactly how we differentiate hate speech and free speech.


If you dont live in the country, than why worry about what a president from a foreign nation saids...unless if their targeting a certain race/religion via a political agenda, I dont see any reason why anyone would be offended because of one sentence.

Considering he didn't say it, how could I worry about him saying something he didn't say I'm not worried about anything regardless, just my opinion that leaders should be impartial



 

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osamanobama on 14 December 2011
Seece said:
osamanobama said:
Seece said:
mrstickball said:
Seece said:
Player1x3 said:
Seece said:
Player1x3 said:

I see you have no actual argument, just an arrogant and very disrespectful reply. Nevermind, than.

My argument is fine, what's disrespectful is pushing religion on those that don't want it.


You have a weird definition of ''pushing''. You should have been born in Middle Age Spain to realize what real religious pushing is. You wouldn't last 3 seconds there, lol, a person like you xD.

There is also this thing called ''free speech'', maybe you heard of it, but apparently presidents are entitled to it too.

Yeah i know of Free Speech, it's what the majority of people thinks gives them the right to say whatever they like. There are such other things such as respect, impartiality and hate speech though.

It doesn't have to be physically forcing, to have something pushed on you. A person like me, what do you mean, someone who doesn't like religion? It doesn't bother me that much, most of my family are religious and I get on fine with them. I'm able to put it to the side.

So you can't say certain things if it offends, hunh? Great. So no more debates on anything, because it may offend someone.

Yes, there certainly are things as respect, impartiality and hate speech. They aren't what you believe they are. If someone wants to say something stupid, or disrespectful, why should they be prevented from doing such? Because you got offended? Do you realize that is the exact same logic governments have used to kill and jail dissenters - because they spoke out against someone else that got offended? Hate speech can be the same way - taken to the extreme, it seeks to punish those who question the status quo. It creates a two-tier system of justice that allows for additional penalties to be lobbied against someone because they said something unfavorable against a certain party - be they Christian, Atheist, Straight, Gay, Republican, Democratic, a Nintendo fan, or anything else.

The further we fall into the idea that fringe ideas of speech and social thought must be censored, banned, and those who speak out jailed are going to find a very problematic future when the societal norms change, and what was once considered obscene becomes commonplace, then your idea of rational thought is on the fringe and in the crosshairs of censorship.

Let me ask you, Secee: If I told you that I think all gay rights groups are promoting hate speech, what would you say? Because your guilty of inciting the same kind of violations, but on the other group of people. Just change 'gay rights' with any other social or political agenda.

Why are you complicating things unnecessarily? I wondered how long it would take for homosexuality to come up, they're completely different. You're born with your sexuality and your skin colour, you're not born with your relgion. Sexuality and Race are something that is part of all of us.

and you just equated sexuality with skin color

Yes? because they're one in the same, born gay, born black, born straight, born white, whatever. Religion is not something you're remotely born with, it's the only one chosen.

lol.... wow. im in shock that you are equating race to being gay. thats is incedibly offensive, and wrong in so many ways.

edit: and according to you thats hate speech since its offensive



lordmandeep on 14 December 2011

Anyways getting back to the polls, they are interesting however we need to Remember Jimmy Carter once led Reagan by over 24% a year before the 1980 election. So things can change.


Carter suffered the worst showing for an incumbent President in history based on electoral votes and 2nd worst in terms of the % of the vote.

Reagan got the biggest Presidential Victory ever (for being a new Candidate),
Reagan, LBJ and FDR got much bigger victories as Incumbents


Obama can become the next Bill Clinton or go down in flames like Carter.



firebolt126 on 14 December 2011

Obama is just a puppet, a tool used by the upper ruling elites.



Mr Khan on 14 December 2011
lordmandeep said:
Anyways getting back to the polls, they are interesting however we need to Remember Jimmy Carter once led Reagan by over 24% a year before the 1980 election. So things can change.


Carter suffered the worst showing for an incumbent President in history based on electoral votes and 2nd worst in terms of the % of the vote.

Reagan got the biggest Presidential Victory ever (for being a new Candidate),
Reagan, LBJ and FDR got much bigger victories as Incumbents


Obama can become the next Bill Clinton or go down in flames like Carter.

Obama's positioned himself well against any possible "Carter-dom." Here's a guy who had a US citizen assassinated without trial and violated the sovereignty of a nominal ally to have someone else assassinated. Carter handled foreign affairs much more softly than Obama

Granted, there are some analogues to what was going on in Carter's tenure, but at the same time Gingrich, Romney, or Perry are no Reagan. Reagan was an ideal counterpoint to Carter on pretty much all fronts, whereas the way Obama's positioned himself, it's hard for anyone to be the "anti-Obama" without taking some very untenable positions



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Seece on 14 December 2011
osamanobama said:
Seece said:

Yes? because they're one in the same, born gay, born black, born straight, born white, whatever. Religion is not something you're remotely born with, it's the only one chosen.

lol.... wow. im in shock that you are equating race to being gay. thats is incedibly offensive, and wrong in so many ways.

edit: and according to you thats hate speech since its offensive

Only offensive to homophobes, and we don't cater to them on this site. You're born with your race and you're born with your sexuality, not offensive about that, it's fact :-S



 

lordmandeep on 14 December 2011

I think Obama needs to be careful and not give aura of defeatism and lack of confidence that Carter had. I think that is what many of us remember Carter to be like. Obama needs to remain confident and strong.

I do not like this attitude Obama is showing lately where he is pretty much saying on 60 minutes, "I cannot do anything and its all the other sides fault. "

So, Carter showed a lack of confidence...

Reagan counteracted with this aura of confidence in America and hope.

None of the current Republicans are projected such an image or are capable of such a message. Sure Carter was unpopular, but Reagan really won people over.

The GOP is expecting Obama to be seen as so disliked, that people will automatically vote for the GOP. It will not be that simple.

 

Everyone is looking at the 1980 election as a refrence. The problem Obama is no Carter and no Republican is as good as Reagan.



FinalEvangelion on 15 December 2011
Seece said:
osamanobama said:
Seece said:

Yes? because they're one in the same, born gay, born black, born straight, born white, whatever. Religion is not something you're remotely born with, it's the only one chosen.

lol.... wow. im in shock that you are equating race to being gay. thats is incedibly offensive, and wrong in so many ways.

edit: and according to you thats hate speech since its offensive

Only offensive to homophobes, and we don't cater to them on this site. You're born with your race and you're born with your sexuality, not offensive about that, it's fact :-S


Agreed.  People would realize this fact if they didn't let religion interfere with scientific discovery - just like Evolution.  Most scientific evidence points out that one cannot help their sexual orientation.  There are some environmental factors like prison where people will take what they can get, but that's a different situation.  I know someone who was married for 30 years to a woman and had kids while being gay and hid his sexual orientation a long time.  He said he just thought of men while having sex to make it work.  I guess we agree more on these topics than game consoles.

 



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

Player1x3 on 15 December 2011
Seece said:
Player1x3 said:
Seece said:

Yeah i know of Free Speech, it's what the majority of people thinks gives them the right to say whatever they like. There are such other things such as respect, impartiality and hate speech though.

It doesn't have to be physically forcing, to have something pushed on you. A person like me, what do you mean, someone who doesn't like religion? It doesn't bother me that much, most of my family are religious and I get on fine with them. I'm able to put it to the side.

Actually yes, that's exactly what free speech does - allowing you to say what you want, ESPECIALLY if its meant in good way, like president saying ''God bless America''. Otherwise, who gets to draw the line between what's ok to say, and what's not?  What you find offensive is an for example, totally ok for an Westboro Baptist and vice versa. mrstickball explains it better than me, so i'll just leave it to him.

And if you find a christian president of a country whos motto is In God we trust saying to his dominating christian nation God bless America ''pushing'', my tip would be to move some place else


Well i don't live in America, nor would it bother me enough to move country as I already said. I don't care if the majority call themselves Christians (most arnt practicing regardless) he should still be impartial, I don't expect religious people to understand that though.

It's pretty easy to figure out what is offensive and what isn't, which is exactly how we differentiate hate speech and free speech.


Impartial doesnt mean he should shut his mouth and not express his beleifs, especially if his beleifs dont interact with his political work.If his religious beleifs actually in any way guided or effected his work, than you would have a point. But there is nothing wrong in saying God bless America. I mean, do you even hear yourelf? And if you think saying God Bless America is offensive and hate speech you really need to have your head checked. President of the USA is still the citizen of the USA and as such is granted a freedom to express his faith to God, YES EVEN to the public, which mostly shares his belief anyway.



Player1x3 on 15 December 2011
Seece said:
Player1x3 said:
Millenium said:


Lots of side subjects? In my area:

Wood works/wood techniques: No

Home class: No

Cooking: No

Religion: Yes

As a matter of fact, the only classes that were forced which had nothing today with learning language/maths/career education/etc was *drum roll* R.E.L.I.G.I.O.N

Anyways we have moved on from the thread in my opinion, I'm sure you can all agree, back to obama's america, keep the religious talk for it's seperate threads guys.


again, i wasn't talking about your own specific case

He already answered your question (or refuted your point) religion is forced on him.


Except that what he said didnt relate to my point at all