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Forums - Politics Discussion - Stop Coddling the Super-Rich

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Buffet&st=cse


OUR leaders have asked for “shared sacrifice.” But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

 While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.

 These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places.

 Last year my federal tax bill — the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf — was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income — and that’s actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent.

 If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine. But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine — most likely by a lot.

 To understand why, you need to examine the sources of government revenue. Last year about 80 percent of these revenues came from personal income taxes and payroll taxes. The mega-rich pay income taxes at a rate of 15 percent on most of their earnings but pay practically nothing in payroll taxes. It’s a different story for the middle class: typically, they fall into the 15 percent and 25 percent income tax brackets, and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot.

 Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

 I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

 Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

 The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains. Some of my brethren may shun work but they all like to invest. (I can relate to that.)

 I know well many of the mega-rich and, by and large, they are very decent people. They love America and appreciate the opportunity this country has given them. Many have joined the Giving Pledge, promising to give most of their wealth to philanthropy. Most wouldn’t mind being told to pay more in taxes as well, particularly when so many of their fellow citizens are truly suffering.

 Twelve members of Congress will soon take on the crucial job of rearranging our country’s finances. They’ve been instructed to devise a plan that reduces the 10-year deficit by at least $1.5 trillion. It’s vital, however, that they achieve far more than that. Americans are rapidly losing faith in the ability of Congress to deal with our country’s fiscal problems. Only action that is immediate, real and very substantial will prevent that doubt from morphing into hopelessness. That feeling can create its own reality.

 Job one for the 12 is to pare down some future promises that even a rich America can’t fulfill. Big money must be saved here. The 12 should then turn to the issue of revenues. I would leave rates for 99.7 percent of taxpayers unchanged and continue the current 2-percentage-point reduction in the employee contribution to the payroll tax. This cut helps the poor and the middle class, who need every break they can get.

 But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

 My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.

Warren E. Buffett is the chairman and chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway.



 

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Warren Buffett is awesome. I have much respect for the man.



Warren Buffet pays so little tax because he can afford a team of accountants to ensure that he pays as little tax as possible, and increasing tax rates will likely result in this team of accountants finding a way to avoid paying the bulk of the increase; often by shifting his earnings to lower taxed regions around the world.

On top of that, Buffet's call for higher taxes will likely result in higher income taxes and Warren Buffet (and most billionares) doesn't earn income; and this will mostly result in higher taxes for successful small businesses which drive most economic growth and hiring, while leaving billionares completely free of increased taxation.



I wish Warren Buffett would run for president. He's one of the few people that could save the U.S. from the fall it'll eventually have if it keeps being run the same way is has been.



HappySqurriel said:

Warren Buffet pays so little tax because he can afford a team of accountants to ensure that he pays as little tax as possible, and increasing tax rates will likely result in this team of accountants finding a way to avoid paying the bulk of the increase; often by shifting his earnings to lower taxed regions around the world.

On top of that, Buffet's call for higher taxes will likely result in higher income taxes and Warren Buffet (and most billionares) doesn't earn income; and this will mostly result in higher taxes for successful small businesses which drive most economic growth and hiring, while leaving billionares completely free of increased taxation.


So you didn't read the article I take it....



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kowenicki said:
Warren is a bit old now and sometimes it shows...

But he is spot on here.

I earn very good money and I pay tax to reflect this... but here in the UK the people who earn many millions per year pay the same tax rate as me... how is that reasonable?

There should be a rate of tax for extremely high earners, yes it wont raise that much in the grand scheme of things but it is about sharing the pain isnt it? Capital gains tax is even worse here... it should be tiered now and the limit raised to aid the less well off investor trying to better their futures. Not that capital gains are much of a problem in the current climate!!


Why should there be a higher tax rate for those who earn more?

In the western world today after you earn enough to cover your needs the money people earn is spent to buy a variety of luxuries. Why should one individual pay higher taxes than another when they're both spending this excess money on luxuries?



sega4life said:
HappySqurriel said:

Warren Buffet pays so little tax because he can afford a team of accountants to ensure that he pays as little tax as possible, and increasing tax rates will likely result in this team of accountants finding a way to avoid paying the bulk of the increase; often by shifting his earnings to lower taxed regions around the world.

On top of that, Buffet's call for higher taxes will likely result in higher income taxes and Warren Buffet (and most billionares) doesn't earn income; and this will mostly result in higher taxes for successful small businesses which drive most economic growth and hiring, while leaving billionares completely free of increased taxation.


So you didn't read the article I take it....


I read the article on Yahoo and the Globe and Mail ...

He talked about how little taxes he pays and how taxes should be increased on the super rich, but he is paying so little taxes because he is using tax-loopholes to avoid paying taxes. If he wants to pay higher taxes he could simply STOP USING LOOPHOLES and pay higher taxes. If tax rates are increased he probably won't pay significantly higher taxes because he will have the money to afford to pay a team of accountants to continue to find loopholes for him to not pay higher taxes.



HappySqurriel said:
kowenicki said:
Warren is a bit old now and sometimes it shows...

But he is spot on here.

I earn very good money and I pay tax to reflect this... but here in the UK the people who earn many millions per year pay the same tax rate as me... how is that reasonable?

There should be a rate of tax for extremely high earners, yes it wont raise that much in the grand scheme of things but it is about sharing the pain isnt it? Capital gains tax is even worse here... it should be tiered now and the limit raised to aid the less well off investor trying to better their futures. Not that capital gains are much of a problem in the current climate!!


Why should there be a higher tax rate for those who earn more?

In the western world today after you earn enough to cover your needs the money people earn is spent to buy a variety of luxuries. Why should one individual pay higher taxes than another when they're both spending this excess money on luxuries?


So I'm taking it your ideal form of taxation would be everybody plays a certain set sum of money to the government no matter what their income is?



HappySqurriel said:
sega4life said:
HappySqurriel said:

Warren Buffet pays so little tax because he can afford a team of accountants to ensure that he pays as little tax as possible, and increasing tax rates will likely result in this team of accountants finding a way to avoid paying the bulk of the increase; often by shifting his earnings to lower taxed regions around the world.

On top of that, Buffet's call for higher taxes will likely result in higher income taxes and Warren Buffet (and most billionares) doesn't earn income; and this will mostly result in higher taxes for successful small businesses which drive most economic growth and hiring, while leaving billionares completely free of increased taxation.


So you didn't read the article I take it....


I read the article on Yahoo and the Globe and Mail ...

He talked about how little taxes he pays and how taxes should be increased on the super rich, but he is paying so little taxes because he is using tax-loopholes to avoid paying taxes. If he wants to pay higher taxes he could simply STOP USING LOOPHOLES and pay higher taxes. If tax rates are increased he probably won't pay significantly higher taxes because he will have the money to afford to pay a team of accountants to continue to find loopholes for him to not pay higher taxes.


I see the article as a 'Call' to close the loopholes.

Big company is on the same boat, Boeing, Citigroup, Exxon Mobil, Bank of America, General Electric, pay no Federal taxes



PS4 Preordered - 06/11/2013 @09:30am

XBox One Preordered - 06/19/2013 @07:57pm

"I don't trust #XboxOne & #Kinect 2.0, it's always connected" as you tweet from your smartphone - irony 0_o

HappySqurriel said:
kowenicki said:
Warren is a bit old now and sometimes it shows...

But he is spot on here.

I earn very good money and I pay tax to reflect this... but here in the UK the people who earn many millions per year pay the same tax rate as me... how is that reasonable?

There should be a rate of tax for extremely high earners, yes it wont raise that much in the grand scheme of things but it is about sharing the pain isnt it? Capital gains tax is even worse here... it should be tiered now and the limit raised to aid the less well off investor trying to better their futures. Not that capital gains are much of a problem in the current climate!!


Why should there be a higher tax rate for those who earn more?

In the western world today after you earn enough to cover your needs the money people earn is spent to buy a variety of luxuries. Why should one individual pay higher taxes than another when they're both spending this excess money on luxuries?


there is such a place, it is called Australia. We also pay tax for interest earnt from money (which has already been taxed) aka penalisedbecause you aresmart to save your hard earned cash.

 

Tax rates 2010-11

Taxable income

Tax on this income

0 - $6,000

Nil

$6,001 - $37,000

15c for each $1 over $6,000

$37,001 - $80,000

$4,650 plus 30c for each $1 over $37,000

$80,001 - $180,000

$17,550 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000

$180,001 and over

$54,550 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000