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Sony is working on PlayStation 4

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Resident_Hazard said:
glimmer_of_hope said:
SaviorX said:
Resident_Hazard said:

It's pretty common practice in gaming for a company to, at the very least, have some kind of R & D going on for the next system the second the current console hits the market.  So, basically, Nintendo was working on Project Cafe in some capacity the moment the Wii launched.

When they get serious on developing a new console, factor in some timeframes:

The system will have to be largely completed for a year to a year and a half (or so) in order for development teams to craft games for the system.  Prior to that, maybe one or two years (or more?) of solid hardware engineering and firmware programming to get the system assembled.  

This Sony announcement mirrors the ad that was discovered (by either IGN or GameInformer) that hinted Microsoft was hiring for positions related to "hardware development."  If Microsoft and Sony are now beginning in earnest to develop their next systems--they probably won't be out until 2013 at the soonest.  Which sounds just great to me.  If the SNES and PS2 could continue surprising us 5 or 6 years into their cycles, then the Xbox360 and PS3 surely have a lot of surprises yet in store.  

I don't think we've exhausted this generation yet.  Well, maybe the Wii, but not the Xbox360 or PS3.  

So the chance of the PS4 being leagues stronger than the Cafe is thrown out the window now huh?

LOL....exactly what i was thinking :D

That doesn't make any sense, and wasn't remotely what I was saying.

Frankly, the rumors so far are pegging Cafe's power at somewhere around the PS3 or Xbox360, which means that the PS4 and Xbox720 will massively out-perform Nintendo's machine again.

It sounds like, so far anyway, that Nintendo is trying to get a jump on the next generation... with current-gen technology.  Rather like they did with the Wii.

I really don't get how you guys interpreted me as saying the PS4 would be mysteriously weaker than Cafe.  It'll be way the hell more powerful, especially considering that Sony will have, what, 1-2 years of extra development on it over Cafe?  Cafe sounds like it's, as I said, just going to be "current gen" technology, released awkwardly towards the end of this generation.

???

All the rumors are clearly stating that the Cafe is at least a third or more stronger than current-gen consoles like the PS3/360.

With how expensive development costs are, the limitations set by a console's resolution, current storage problems that devs are running into, and Sony's current inability to support a complete push like they gave the PS3, NO, PS4 is not gonna be "hella more powerful".

The power difference between Cafe and PS4 will be nowhere near as grand as it was between Wii/PS3. Sony simply cannot afford something that bleeding-edge, at least not again. No one said it would be weaker though, you interpreted that on your own.

As for Cafe's release timing, how is it awkward? It is releasing at least 12-18 months before the consoles of the competition, with HW specs that may not necessarily get "stomped" by the time the 720/PS4 actually do release.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

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As far as the next home consoles I think the launch years are: 2012 for Nintendo (as they have stated), 2015 for Mircosoft (because they want to milk more profit out of the 360 before taking a leap into their next console as well as getting costs lower for making the new console), and 2015 for Sony (so they have more time to recoup money lost this gen and get production costs down on their new console as well).

I am not really sure what kind of features I would want the next consoles to include that could convince me to upgrade. I guess the just really need a ton of exclusive games, a great controller (like the DS3), super fast loading times, stable 60 frames per second, and lower game prices. << (That sounds rather good actually :D )



SaviorX said:

...
As for Cafe's release timing, how is it awkward? It is releasing at least 12-18 months before the consoles of the competition, with HW specs that may not necessarily get "stomped" by the time the 720/PS4 actually do release.

It'll be just as awkward as the PS1 launching before the N64 and at the end of the SNES generation, with the possibility of selling boatloads.



superchunk said:

1. Every company in some fashion starts the work of the next console once the current one is in the market.

2. R&D is being ramped up as they have decided that they need to finalize it asap as they know Nintendo has a new system in 2012 and they are confident MS won't be far behind.

3. This does not actually conflict Kaz's remarks as he was referring to a short time frame vs long time frame. "a near-future PS4..." key words being "near-future". This does not mean that there isn't one being planned and finalzied for 2012 or 2013.

4. The "10 year plan" has nothing to do with a PS4 launching after 6 or 8 years. It just means the PS3 will be offered for at least 10 years. This is no different than any other company and more specifically PS1 and PS2 and PS3 lives and launches.

All this report does is state what anyone should already know as well as further prove my predictions that by 2013 all three will have new consoles out. Actually I said at least one by 2012 (Nintendo's fills this) but maybe two by then (I still think MS may show something this E3. MS and Sony will definitely show something by E32012.

This pretty much sums it all.

The increase in R&D just means that they are looking components for what they have in mind and testing it and/or trying to find better/cheaper alternatives. It can also include the development/codings costs of the new development  kits.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

i'm actually surprised that this is getting so much attention around the net, like superchunk said "Every company in some fashion starts the work of the next console once the current one is in the market"



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SaviorX said:
Resident_Hazard said:

That doesn't make any sense, and wasn't remotely what I was saying.

Frankly, the rumors so far are pegging Cafe's power at somewhere around the PS3 or Xbox360, which means that the PS4 and Xbox720 will massively out-perform Nintendo's machine again.

It sounds like, so far anyway, that Nintendo is trying to get a jump on the next generation... with current-gen technology.  Rather like they did with the Wii.

I really don't get how you guys interpreted me as saying the PS4 would be mysteriously weaker than Cafe.  It'll be way the hell more powerful, especially considering that Sony will have, what, 1-2 years of extra development on it over Cafe?  Cafe sounds like it's, as I said, just going to be "current gen" technology, released awkwardly towards the end of this generation.

???

All the rumors are clearly stating that the Cafe is at least a third or more stronger than current-gen consoles like the PS3/360.

With how expensive development costs are, the limitations set by a console's resolution, current storage problems that devs are running into, and Sony's current inability to support a complete push like they gave the PS3, NO, PS4 is not gonna be "hella more powerful".

The power difference between Cafe and PS4 will be nowhere near as grand as it was between Wii/PS3. Sony simply cannot afford something that bleeding-edge, at least not again. No one said it would be weaker though, you interpreted that on your own.

As for Cafe's release timing, how is it awkward? It is releasing at least 12-18 months before the consoles of the competition, with HW specs that may not necessarily get "stomped" by the time the 720/PS4 actually do release.

If Cafe is only a third more powerful than a PS3, that means it'll place in roughly the same way, hardware-wise, as the Wii over the PS2/GameCube--as in, it won't be substantially more powerful than current-gen machines.  It might get some 3rd party ports of Xbox360 and PS3 titles, but the second Microsoft and Sony launch their systems, 1-2 years later, Cafe won't matter any more.  It'll be the Wii all over again.

It'll be a system that isn't powerful enough to handle the engines of the next generation that are optimized to run on the X720 and PS4.  In much the same way the Wii got nothing on the current Unreal engine, Cafe won't get anything for the Unreal engine made to run on X720 and PS4.  

Project Cafe needs to be actual next-gen technology, and if it's only a measly third more powerful than the X360 or PS3, then that means Nintendo's next-gen system is made with current-gen technology again.  The PS3 isn't only a third more powerful than the PS2--it's several times more powerful.  

The timing will be awkward--Dreamcast awkward.  Coming out before this generation is finished, and before the next is truly ready to go.  It'll sell mostly to just Nintendo's core fans, that that'll be it.  When the PS4 and Xbox720 launch, Cafe will look like generation-old technology, just as the Wii did.  The Dreamcast launched 12-18 months before it's competition.  First to market is never first in sales.  The difference is that Nintendo didn't burn bridges with the Wii the way Sega did with the Saturn (Sega-CD and 32X), so Cafe might not end up being their last console--but it certainly isn't on track to be a success.

Asuming the PS4 won't be drastically more powerful than the PS3 is just silly.  Obviously it'll be drastically (hella, if you like) more powerful, otherwise there'd be no reason to do it.  Just like the next Xbox will be drastically more powerful than the X360.  They won't be a laughable "third more powerful."  They'll be a good three to nine times (or more) more powerful than the current gen machines.  Again, like the Xbox360 over the Xbox.  Sony said they're going to be more mindful of the cost, that doesn't mean they're going to make a weak-ass console.  They're going to make another powerhouse, but be more mindful of the way in which they do it.

Nintendo aiming low (hardware tech wise) like they did with the Wii earned them a lot of laughs, little 3rd party support, and even fewer ports of popular multi-platform titles.  If Cafe is truly only a third more powerful than the Xbox360 or PS3, it's a "next"-gen system with last-gen appeal.  Either it's a true current-gen system releasing too late to matter, or it's a next-gen system barely any more powerful than current-gen systems.  And it'll launch a good year or so ahead of Microsoft and Sony's next machines, which means any success it has will be short lived as they'll have time to properly capitalize on Cafe's successes.

Cafe isn't going to set the gaming world on fire.  Especially if the rumors of it's strength are true.



Resident_Hazard said:
 

If Cafe is only a third more powerful than a PS3, that means it'll place in roughly the same way, hardware-wise, as the Wii over the PS2/GameCube--as in, it won't be substantially more powerful than current-gen machines.  It might get some 3rd party ports of Xbox360 and PS3 titles, but the second Microsoft and Sony launch their systems, 1-2 years later, Cafe won't matter any more.  It'll be the Wii all over again.

It'll be a system that isn't powerful enough to handle the engines of the next generation that are optimized to run on the X720 and PS4.  In much the same way the Wii got nothing on the current Unreal engine, Cafe won't get anything for the Unreal engine made to run on X720 and PS4.  

Project Cafe needs to be actual next-gen technology, and if it's only a measly third more powerful than the X360 or PS3, then that means Nintendo's next-gen system is made with current-gen technology again.  The PS3 isn't only a third more powerful than the PS2--it's several times more powerful.  

The timing will be awkward--Dreamcast awkward.  Coming out before this generation is finished, and before the next is truly ready to go.  It'll sell mostly to just Nintendo's core fans, that that'll be it.  When the PS4 and Xbox720 launch, Cafe will look like generation-old technology, just as the Wii did.  The Dreamcast launched 12-18 months before it's competition.  First to market is never first in sales.  The difference is that Nintendo didn't burn bridges with the Wii the way Sega did with the Saturn (Sega-CD and 32X), so Cafe might not end up being their last console--but it certainly isn't on track to be a success.

Asuming the PS4 won't be drastically more powerful than the PS3 is just silly.  Obviously it'll be drastically (hella, if you like) more powerful, otherwise there'd be no reason to do it.  Just like the next Xbox will be drastically more powerful than the X360.  They won't be a laughable "third more powerful."  They'll be a good three to nine times (or more) more powerful than the current gen machines.  Again, like the Xbox360 over the Xbox.  Sony said they're going to be more mindful of the cost, that doesn't mean they're going to make a weak-ass console.  They're going to make another powerhouse, but be more mindful of the way in which they do it.

Nintendo aiming low (hardware tech wise) like they did with the Wii earned them a lot of laughs, little 3rd party support, and even fewer ports of popular multi-platform titles.  If Cafe is truly only a third more powerful than the Xbox360 or PS3, it's a "next"-gen system with last-gen appeal.  Either it's a true current-gen system releasing too late to matter, or it's a next-gen system barely any more powerful than current-gen systems.  And it'll launch a good year or so ahead of Microsoft and Sony's next machines, which means any success it has will be short lived as they'll have time to properly capitalize on Cafe's successes.

Cafe isn't going to set the gaming world on fire.  Especially if the rumors of it's strength are true.

 

However, this is still assuming that the PS4/720 will be leagues stronger in power, which they simply cannot. Sure, they may have pieces in place that can run frames, and aliasing etc at faster speeds, but GRAPHICALLY, what they will be able to achieve with these consoles will not be that much greater than what Café can do. You must realize, such exaggerated power will cost more than most publishers can sustain to afford. You cannot just make everything look like crisis on food stamps and elbow grease.

The situation with Café is not the same as it was with the Wii in 2005. Nintendo is not coming off their worst-selling console (ignore Virtual Boy). No one is expecting their marketshare to dwindle to 15%. The company itself is reaching out to others to secure exclusives and ensure a stable library. They are adopting the same strategy with the 3DS, letting 3rd parties have a shot early on. Part of the reason they complained of Wii in the 1st place was due to space limitations and power – even when PS4/720 release that still won’t be seen as an issue.

 

The leap will not be as large between consoles. Besides, are you telling me that they will skip out entirely on a Café-compatible engine to make a bleeding-edge one for the others. By the way you make it sound, it seems like 3rd parties will avoid the console completely and make it go Dreamcast. Even if that frustrating circumstance did occur, whats to stop Nintendo from repeating the same strategy adopted by the Wii again to succeed despite lackluster support?

 

As you said, the Dreamcast failed for a variety of reasons. The only you can relate to the console is the timing of its release. Besides, the position Sony was in, and the postion Sega was in were two COMPLETELY different things, and the circumstances this time around are nowhere near the same.

 

It does not matter how mindful they are of how they make it, the parts will still come at a price. Lets assume these consoles are coming in TWO years time, 2013. Since R&D has already begun, it makes sense they will use parts from this year right? If that is the case, which graphics cards can they use now which quadruple the PS3 in strength and still be profitable with? Who can afford to create every game with a budget around $60 million (Ubisoft stated this will be the average - http://kotaku.com/5293126/ubisoft-ceo-expects-60-million-game-budgets-next-gen)

Graphical strength will not be the only upgrade the console will have over this generation either. E3 is only about a week away, so it will be confirmed there, but what is to say the Interface will not take main precedence like it did with the Wii? What if the controller is revolutionary/innovative and is unique like motion controls was? Storage? Compatibility? Resolution? 3D? Holograms? Streaming? Vitality Sensor?

 Graphics will not be the only determining factor whether Nintendo sinks or swims this time.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

Resident_Hazard said:
SaviorX said:
Resident_Hazard said:

That doesn't make any sense, and wasn't remotely what I was saying.

Frankly, the rumors so far are pegging Cafe's power at somewhere around the PS3 or Xbox360, which means that the PS4 and Xbox720 will massively out-perform Nintendo's machine again.

It sounds like, so far anyway, that Nintendo is trying to get a jump on the next generation... with current-gen technology.  Rather like they did with the Wii.

I really don't get how you guys interpreted me as saying the PS4 would be mysteriously weaker than Cafe.  It'll be way the hell more powerful, especially considering that Sony will have, what, 1-2 years of extra development on it over Cafe?  Cafe sounds like it's, as I said, just going to be "current gen" technology, released awkwardly towards the end of this generation.

???

All the rumors are clearly stating that the Cafe is at least a third or more stronger than current-gen consoles like the PS3/360.

With how expensive development costs are, the limitations set by a console's resolution, current storage problems that devs are running into, and Sony's current inability to support a complete push like they gave the PS3, NO, PS4 is not gonna be "hella more powerful".

The power difference between Cafe and PS4 will be nowhere near as grand as it was between Wii/PS3. Sony simply cannot afford something that bleeding-edge, at least not again. No one said it would be weaker though, you interpreted that on your own.

As for Cafe's release timing, how is it awkward? It is releasing at least 12-18 months before the consoles of the competition, with HW specs that may not necessarily get "stomped" by the time the 720/PS4 actually do release.

If Cafe is only a third more powerful than a PS3, that means it'll place in roughly the same way, hardware-wise, as the Wii over the PS2/GameCube--as in, it won't be substantially more powerful than current-gen machines.  It might get some 3rd party ports of Xbox360 and PS3 titles, but the second Microsoft and Sony launch their systems, 1-2 years later, Cafe won't matter any more.  It'll be the Wii all over again.

It'll be a system that isn't powerful enough to handle the engines of the next generation that are optimized to run on the X720 and PS4.  In much the same way the Wii got nothing on the current Unreal engine, Cafe won't get anything for the Unreal engine made to run on X720 and PS4.  

Project Cafe needs to be actual next-gen technology, and if it's only a measly third more powerful than the X360 or PS3, then that means Nintendo's next-gen system is made with current-gen technology again.  The PS3 isn't only a third more powerful than the PS2--it's several times more powerful.  

The timing will be awkward--Dreamcast awkward.  Coming out before this generation is finished, and before the next is truly ready to go.  It'll sell mostly to just Nintendo's core fans, that that'll be it.  When the PS4 and Xbox720 launch, Cafe will look like generation-old technology, just as the Wii did.  The Dreamcast launched 12-18 months before it's competition.  First to market is never first in sales.  The difference is that Nintendo didn't burn bridges with the Wii the way Sega did with the Saturn (Sega-CD and 32X), so Cafe might not end up being their last console--but it certainly isn't on track to be a success.

Asuming the PS4 won't be drastically more powerful than the PS3 is just silly.  Obviously it'll be drastically (hella, if you like) more powerful, otherwise there'd be no reason to do it.  Just like the next Xbox will be drastically more powerful than the X360.  They won't be a laughable "third more powerful."  They'll be a good three to nine times (or more) more powerful than the current gen machines.  Again, like the Xbox360 over the Xbox.  Sony said they're going to be more mindful of the cost, that doesn't mean they're going to make a weak-ass console.  They're going to make another powerhouse, but be more mindful of the way in which they do it.

Nintendo aiming low (hardware tech wise) like they did with the Wii earned them a lot of laughs, little 3rd party support, and even fewer ports of popular multi-platform titles.  If Cafe is truly only a third more powerful than the Xbox360 or PS3, it's a "next"-gen system with last-gen appeal.  Either it's a true current-gen system releasing too late to matter, or it's a next-gen system barely any more powerful than current-gen systems.  And it'll launch a good year or so ahead of Microsoft and Sony's next machines, which means any success it has will be short lived as they'll have time to properly capitalize on Cafe's successes.

Cafe isn't going to set the gaming world on fire.  Especially if the rumors of it's strength are true.

While I agree that Cafe needs to be more than a third more powerfull than a PS3/Xbox360 there are 2 things that you need to consider.

1-Resolution. Nintendo chosed to launch a console without HD while PS3/Xbox360 used it as a main selling point. This meant that a multiplatform game needed a different engine on the Wii, another set of textures, etc. plus another control scheme. This time while PS4/Xbox720 may pursue the true 1080p at 60fps, developers will be able to use the same engine and textures on Cafe, but at 720p.

2-Development costs. As SaviorX points if Sony and Microsoft launch new consoles with a leap in performance comparable to the one from PS2 to PS3 that will lead to far too high costs, forcing them to look for as many ways to increase income as possible. Since compays refuse to launch most of its games on PC due to piracy, the other ways to find this income is lauching in as many platforms as possible, that means launching them on Cafe, or increase the price of the games. And knowing them they will probably do both.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

d21lewis said:

I haven't read this thread, yet.  I'm sure someone already pointed this out but:

  • Work on the N64 (Project: Reality) started in 93-94.  It released in 96.
  • Xbox development began in 1998.  It released in 2001
  • Gamecube develpoment began in 1998-1999.  It released in 2001
  • Wii development began in 2001.  It released in 2006.

These are just a few examples.  Everybody is always working on the next successor to their current generation console (at least, the successful companies are).  It's not news to know that the next gen is being worked on.  I mean, Nintendo has a new console about to be shown at E3.  It's probably been in development since 2005 or something.  The only thing that bothers me about Sony "letting the cat out of the bag" so early is that I feel they're trying to cause a Dreamcast-like situation--one where people hold off on buying the new console (Nintendo's) based solely on the promise that a better experience is going to be released in the near future and that it's just better to wait (Nintendo did this with the PS1 and Saturn, too, if you recall.  It actually worked until the PS1 really took off in '97).  Anyway, my two cents.  You got 'em.

Can't let the competition look good. XD



SaviorX said:


However, this is still assuming that the PS4/720 will be leagues stronger in power, which they simply cannot. Sure, they may have pieces in place that can run frames, and aliasing etc at faster speeds, but GRAPHICALLY, what they will be able to achieve with these consoles will not be that much greater than what Café can do. You must realize, such exaggerated power will cost more than most publishers can sustain to afford. You cannot just make everything look like crisis on food stamps and elbow grease.

The situation with Café is not the same as it was with the Wii in 2005. Nintendo is not coming off their worst-selling console (ignore Virtual Boy). No one is expecting their marketshare to dwindle to 15%. The company itself is reaching out to others to secure exclusives and ensure a stable library. They are adopting the same strategy with the 3DS, letting 3rd parties have a shot early on. Part of the reason they complained of Wii in the 1st place was due to space limitations and power – even when PS4/720 release that still won’t be seen as an issue.

 

The leap will not be as large between consoles. Besides, are you telling me that they will skip out entirely on a Café-compatible engine to make a bleeding-edge one for the others. By the way you make it sound, it seems like 3rd parties will avoid the console completely and make it go Dreamcast. Even if that frustrating circumstance did occur, whats to stop Nintendo from repeating the same strategy adopted by the Wii again to succeed despite lackluster support?

 

As you said, the Dreamcast failed for a variety of reasons. The only you can relate to the console is the timing of its release. Besides, the position Sony was in, and the postion Sega was in were two COMPLETELY different things, and the circumstances this time around are nowhere near the same.

 

It does not matter how mindful they are of how they make it, the parts will still come at a price. Lets assume these consoles are coming in TWO years time, 2013. Since R&D has already begun, it makes sense they will use parts from this year right? If that is the case, which graphics cards can they use now which quadruple the PS3 in strength and still be profitable with? Who can afford to create every game with a budget around $60 million (Ubisoft stated this will be the average - http://kotaku.com/5293126/ubisoft-ceo-expects-60-million-game-budgets-next-gen)

Graphical strength will not be the only upgrade the console will have over this generation either. E3 is only about a week away, so it will be confirmed there, but what is to say the Interface will not take main precedence like it did with the Wii? What if the controller is revolutionary/innovative and is unique like motion controls was? Storage? Compatibility? Resolution? 3D? Holograms? Streaming? Vitality Sensor?

 Graphics will not be the only determining factor whether Nintendo sinks or swims this time.

Well, firstly, not every game will cost 60 million to make.  Just as technology gets both better and more affordable over time, making more complex games gets cheaper.  Games that would've taken a full team on the NES can be crafted by single individuals these days--and it happens all the time.  Once complex and difficult design elements get cheaper over time.  

Sure, the next Sony and Microsoft systems will be, likely, using hardware designed and existing right now, but Cafe is using hardware designed in 2006 or 2007.  Maybe 2008 at the latest.  

And I'm certainly not talking just graphics.  If the only problem was graphics, some of these engines could've (like Unreal) could've, in theory, been designed to run on the Wii.  But it's a lot more than graphics.  It's physics, particles, depth of programming for A.I., sizes of stages, and the ability to handle other complex operations, such as vast online multiplayer games with massive numbers of players.  

Again, it's silly to assume that the PS4 or X720 will not be massive leaps over Cafe.  Of course they will be.  And they'll be pricey, but not PS3 pricey.  Is it costly to develop on this vastly higher hardware?  Of course it is.  But Microsoft and Sony aren't going to put out new systems that are barely improvements over their current systems.  They'll be damn powerful compared to the current generation, and compared to Cafe.  They're going to A) give consumers a reason to upgrade to these monstrously high-tech new machines and B) they're going to give developers as much room for growth, experimentation, and development as possible.  

 

As for 3rd parties not supporting Cafe after about 2 years, well, for one thing, it happened before:  The GameCube was essentially everything the Xbox and PS2 were, but in typical Nintendo fan fashion, third party games were largely ignored for Nintendo's stuff.  I guess having two or three more Mario party games was just "better" to Nintendo fans than having Beyond Good & Evil, Call of Duty or Prince of Persia (etc).  Third party stuff doesn't sell on Nintendo systems.  Sure, Nintendo "stepped back" to let 3rd parties have some space on the 3DS, but the 3DS launch was less than stellar, and sales haven't exactly been impressive.  Plus, the 3rd party companies didn't care all that much--and neither did Nintendo.  

Which is another thing--adopting the same strategy as the 3DS.  It doesn't seem like the strategy is working.  Aside from Street Fighter, DoA, and Ghost Recon, everything on the 3DS so far seems to be terrible.  And the 3DS itself just doesn't seem to be that much of a leap forward over the now-classic DS line, plus, it's wicked expensive.  If this is the strategy Nintendo's going for, then they're going to have similar sales issues with Cafe--and that thing certainly doesn't sound cheap.  Controllers with HD touch-screens, compatible with Wii Remotes, possibly with microphones and their own motion controls?  These things alone will probably retail for a hundred bucks.  The system itself sounds like it'll be $400 or more.  When did Nintendo turn into Sony?  "Yeah, we can charge whatever.  People will pay for it.  Because we tell 'em to."  At least when Sony was selling a system for $600, they were selling it for a loss.  Nintendo's no doubt going to charge $100 or more above development cost of Cafe.

I think Nintendo is getting arrogant on the success of the Wii and DS, and the pricing and poor launch of the 3DS is evidence to this.

Third party companies will likely port some stuff to Cafe since it'll port easily from Xbox360 and PS3, but after about two years when the next Xbox and Playstation launch (and Nintendo fans continue to ignore the 3rd party games), they'll upgrade to the vastly more powerful next Xbox and Playstation.  

 

None of this stuff about Cafe looks good to me.  Yeah, sure, Nintendo's finally making an HD system.  They're finally going to have some kind of "normal" controller.  But then again, they're going to release what is essentially a current-gen system towards the end of this generation.  It's likely going to cost more than the competing systems, and will have a prohibitively expensive controller.  (If they don't include two controllers with launch systems, I'm calling shenanigans on them, because otherwise, they're going to price themselves out of multiplayer gaming.)  If their goal is to follow 3DS strategy, then it's going to be a rocky start, and both Microsoft and Sony will watch carefully, and counter with punishing force.  And again, it doesn't really matter if they have 3rd party support or not, since, as usual, Nintendo fans don't buy 3rd party software--this stuff almost always sells better on pretty much any other system.  

And another thing that irks me about whether or not they lamely follow "3DS" strategy:  Look at how pathetic their early 3DS strategy is.  We're getting, thus far, one unique, new, fairly original game.  Just Kid Icarus.  Other than that, we have a barely evolved sequel (Nintendogs), an old revamped DS demo (Steel Diver), and two ports from a system nearly 15 years old (Zelda and StarFox).  What about this fills anyone with warm feelings concerning Cafe?  What, are we going to get on there?  A forgotten Wii demo?  Two "HD and touch-screen-upgraded" GameCube titles?  One original game?  

Do you really want them following the highly questionable, and generally embarrassing 3DS strategy?  Maybe we'll get lucky.  Maybe the early Wii demo to find new life as a Cafe launch title will be Project HAMMER.  But I doubt that.  We'll probably get Luigi's Mansion HD-Touch and Wind Waker HD-Touch.  

Honestly, I have never felt so "un-thrilled" for a new Nintendo system in my life.  And I love this company.  Look below here, in my signature, look how much of their crap I own: