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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony channel stuffing PS3's to retailers (w/ pics).. AGGRIVATING.

Zucas said:
leatherhat said:
Zucas said:

Well first to settle a point, individual store managers DO NOT determine how much product their store gets.  If people would think about this logically they would understand why this makes no sense.  Managers don't require any form of higher education to obtain their job, so why would you put these people in charge of sales analysis of individual stores to gain trends to determine demand for the future.  Please think for a moment.  I'm not entirely sure, with the case of Gamestop for me, whether or not it comes from a district or a regional level, but in no way, shape, or form does the individual store have any control over the amount of product (aside from selling product).  

Now, to get back to the original post, starting somewhere in the summer, we did start to see an increase in PS3 stock at my Gamestop I work at.  Think in July.  Only a couple of months before this had our stock become normal, as most early part of 2010 we didn't have PS3s at all.  But from July till about October, we did obtain more and more PS3s than usual, despite not selling too many of them (don't sell many systems at all in the summer months anyways).  So for the most part up until Black Friday, we had a large quantity of PS3s in stock with not a lot of demand.  Now come Black Friday, we did sell a lot of them, but Wii and 360 were put into a sell out while PS3 just returned to normalcy.  

What do I think of it?  I don't think much of it at all.  We tend to get more stock in right before the holiday season, although it doesn't usually happen until early October instead of late July.  I think what caused this one for PS3 was the change from the 120 GB SKU to the 160 GB SKU.  Not entirely sure if that is the answer, but I think that would explain the abnormal increase for the late summer months.  Then obviously I would think the rest of the increases were just normal for holiday preparation.  Did it seem a little bit more than usual or more than the other competitors?  Yea maybe a little bit but I wouldn't have enough evidence to really say it is Sony channel stuffing.  I mean obviously all of the big 3 have done this at least one time or another so it is to be expected, but I don't know off of this that we could say whether or not they are doing it.  

Hope this helps, Infamous, in possibly figuring out the dilemma.  If ya have anymore questions on things happening in my store, I'm glad to answer them.


Then how exactly do they know what amounts to give each store? There has to  be some sort of accounting on the stores side so that the business would know how much to send. They could use educated guesses based on trends but surely on a store to store basis there would be anomalies that they wouldn't be able to predict. And surely if a store was so well stocked they wouldn't continue to receive shipments.

Well it isn't like all the sales data and stock are available only to the individual store.  Higher ups in the company have access to those numbers. 

But you are absolutely right that there are anomalies that only the store would know that they wouldn't be able to predict.  That is why sometimes individual stores will get over or under stocked of certain products that defies what the numbers would say to do.  For instance, recently with one of the PSP games (can't remember which one) , we weren't sent a  small amount of copies that reflected sales numbers for PSP at our store, which like most have been rather dismal.  But something numbers can't show, is that we did have a larger, loyal group of PSP owners who did shop regularly there.  Sold out of the title rahter easily due to that.  Now obviously people in the store would have known that and requested more of the product or the buyers themselves could have helped out by reserving more which does help get more stock.  So won't say it is a perfect system, but that is how it works, at least for Gamestop.  I would assume for most other retail chains as well as the manager just isn't required to be of a high enough education to make those decisions.  

And I would disagree with the last point.  Being well stocked doesn't necessarily mean you won't receive more shipments.  One case this year has definitely been with Medal of Honor.  We received a large first shipment, which sold modestly.  Then we received a rather unusually large second shipment of the game as well.  Caused us to have a relatively large amount of the title when early sales didn't represent it.  Why?  My guess has been shared by others I know.  One being EA vastly overshipped and stores over bought, which is reflected by the unanimous Black Friday deals on the title.  Then a part two to that I would suspect is channel stuffing.  EA can have a lot of pull with retailers as it has a few titles under its belt that retailers are going to really want.  Therefore deals are struck for the success of both sides.  It gets a dirty name, but it happens.  So full warehouses are not good for a retailer, which is why they stuff as much stock as possible in individual stores where they can sell.

 

So yea it just doesn't happen at the individual store level and there are lots of reasons why certain titles are over and under shipped or over and under stocked in individual stores.  Politics of the business world I suppose.  However, I don't think this is the case with the PS3 as being suggested in the topic as I explained in the post, but it does happen.  Hope that kinda helps to describe it.  


Seems like an inefficient system, they might have to have higher standards for managers but I think it would be beneficial as a whole if gamestop were to let individual stores make orders. Thats how some larger chains do it but I guess gamestop stores may be too small in comparison to the bigger retailers for it to be worth it. 



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

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leatherhat said:
Username2324 said:
leatherhat said:
Zucas said:

Well first to settle a point, individual store managers DO NOT determine how much product their store gets.  If people would think about this logically they would understand why this makes no sense.  Managers don't require any form of higher education to obtain their job, so why would you put these people in charge of sales analysis of individual stores to gain trends to determine demand for the future.  Please think for a moment.  I'm not entirely sure, with the case of Gamestop for me, whether or not it comes from a district or a regional level, but in no way, shape, or form does the individual store have any control over the amount of product (aside from selling product).  

Now, to get back to the original post, starting somewhere in the summer, we did start to see an increase in PS3 stock at my Gamestop I work at.  Think in July.  Only a couple of months before this had our stock become normal, as most early part of 2010 we didn't have PS3s at all.  But from July till about October, we did obtain more and more PS3s than usual, despite not selling too many of them (don't sell many systems at all in the summer months anyways).  So for the most part up until Black Friday, we had a large quantity of PS3s in stock with not a lot of demand.  Now come Black Friday, we did sell a lot of them, but Wii and 360 were put into a sell out while PS3 just returned to normalcy.  

What do I think of it?  I don't think much of it at all.  We tend to get more stock in right before the holiday season, although it doesn't usually happen until early October instead of late July.  I think what caused this one for PS3 was the change from the 120 GB SKU to the 160 GB SKU.  Not entirely sure if that is the answer, but I think that would explain the abnormal increase for the late summer months.  Then obviously I would think the rest of the increases were just normal for holiday preparation.  Did it seem a little bit more than usual or more than the other competitors?  Yea maybe a little bit but I wouldn't have enough evidence to really say it is Sony channel stuffing.  I mean obviously all of the big 3 have done this at least one time or another so it is to be expected, but I don't know off of this that we could say whether or not they are doing it.  

Hope this helps, Infamous, in possibly figuring out the dilemma.  If ya have anymore questions on things happening in my store, I'm glad to answer them.


Then how exactly do they know what amounts to give each store? There has to  be some sort of accounting on the stores side so that the business would know how much to send. They could use educated guesses based on trends but surely on a store to store basis there would be anomalies that they wouldn't be able to predict. And surely if a store was so well stocked they wouldn't continue to receive shipments.

Incorrect. Like I posted above, stores have on-hand minimums and maximums for inventory. And shipments are based on those numbers. Once you are at or below your minimum on-hand count you get more on your next load. The exceptions are when you have a special promotion coming up, and you might get more than normal. And some times they do "purging" of products where a new product or an updated product will be coming so they empty the warehouses of a current product.

Which brings me to a point I forgot to mention. Stores do not get shipments direct from manufacturers. Pretty much all retail chains have warehouses, and from those warehouses shipments are made on an individual store basis. This again disproves the idea that Sony is "channel stuffing". It's just ludicrous to think that Gamestop would be forced by Sony to accept more than they want.


So this stores minimum on hand count could be 80 ? That sounds way too high even for christmas. Somebody is screwing up in the supply chain, badly. 

Not the minimum, the maximum on hand count could be 80. I should have clarified that generally shipments are triggered once you hit the minimum but that is not true for all products. The minimum on hand could be 5 and the max could 80 and if there is a steady flow of the product (because we all know the product is moving) there is going to be a steady flow of incoming shipments.



binary solo said:
Killiana1a said:

Sorry, I had to put down the popcorn because this whole show is ridiculous. Here is how it has played out:

1. OP who works as an assistant manager for a GameStop store does inventory and notices a huge discrepancy in overshipments of Sony PS3, PS3 Move bundles, and Move to his store.

2. He snaps some pictures and sometime after work he logs on here and creates an honest post accusing Sony of overstuffing the channel for whatever reason be it to hit the 15 million mark or whatnot.

3. Another poster comes on and denies to the point of trolling calling the OP a liar and continuing to post regardless of knowing whether he is flaming or not.

4. Possible ulterior motives underlying the OP and the other poster's posts. I don't know but judging from their sigs, one is a heavy Sony user thusforth they may have so much emotion invested in the success of Sony that they post to the point of ban.

5. Obscene language and caps lock are observed on the other poster's part.

Now I could write all this up as a report, but I will not because I prefer my analysis to be a part of public record.

I have no problem denying the OP, but when it comes to the point where one calls him a liar, uses obscene language, and resort to caps locks, then one is past the point of a rational discussion where both can agree to disagree. At this point, one needs to be checked and dragged from the podium.

Back to the popcorn and purple font watching.

The point that is really at issue is 2. As the OP doesn't constitute evidence of any credibility that Sony is channel stuffing. When a manufacturer channel stuffs it means they have warehouses bursting full of product (which may or may not be the case here). It does not mean retailers are running out of space at their stores with a mountain of product piling up.

The ediventiary pics in the OP are evidence of mis-management of PS3 ordering practices by Gamestop. Or Evidence of Gamestop loading up on PS3s so that they don't need to bring in new shipments over the holiday season. Perhaps Sony made a deal with Gamestop that if it got its holiday shipments delivered before December they would get a bit of a wholesaler discount.

The point is that the OP was a bit of a troll OP because it's drawing a conclusion that is simply not supported by the evidence. Gamestop business decisions about ordering PS3's cannot be extrapolated to Sony worldwide business decisions on PS3 production and shipping.

Well stated and great post. Regardless of whether this whole thread is a troll post, it brings light to the management or lack thereof at the upper tiers of GameStop.

This much a lot of us agree on regardless of the PSN or Xbox Live tags in our signatures.



leatherhat said:
Zucas said:
leatherhat said:
Zucas said:

Well first to settle a point, individual store managers DO NOT determine how much product their store gets.  If people would think about this logically they would understand why this makes no sense.  Managers don't require any form of higher education to obtain their job, so why would you put these people in charge of sales analysis of individual stores to gain trends to determine demand for the future.  Please think for a moment.  I'm not entirely sure, with the case of Gamestop for me, whether or not it comes from a district or a regional level, but in no way, shape, or form does the individual store have any control over the amount of product (aside from selling product).  

Now, to get back to the original post, starting somewhere in the summer, we did start to see an increase in PS3 stock at my Gamestop I work at.  Think in July.  Only a couple of months before this had our stock become normal, as most early part of 2010 we didn't have PS3s at all.  But from July till about October, we did obtain more and more PS3s than usual, despite not selling too many of them (don't sell many systems at all in the summer months anyways).  So for the most part up until Black Friday, we had a large quantity of PS3s in stock with not a lot of demand.  Now come Black Friday, we did sell a lot of them, but Wii and 360 were put into a sell out while PS3 just returned to normalcy.  

What do I think of it?  I don't think much of it at all.  We tend to get more stock in right before the holiday season, although it doesn't usually happen until early October instead of late July.  I think what caused this one for PS3 was the change from the 120 GB SKU to the 160 GB SKU.  Not entirely sure if that is the answer, but I think that would explain the abnormal increase for the late summer months.  Then obviously I would think the rest of the increases were just normal for holiday preparation.  Did it seem a little bit more than usual or more than the other competitors?  Yea maybe a little bit but I wouldn't have enough evidence to really say it is Sony channel stuffing.  I mean obviously all of the big 3 have done this at least one time or another so it is to be expected, but I don't know off of this that we could say whether or not they are doing it.  

Hope this helps, Infamous, in possibly figuring out the dilemma.  If ya have anymore questions on things happening in my store, I'm glad to answer them.


Then how exactly do they know what amounts to give each store? There has to  be some sort of accounting on the stores side so that the business would know how much to send. They could use educated guesses based on trends but surely on a store to store basis there would be anomalies that they wouldn't be able to predict. And surely if a store was so well stocked they wouldn't continue to receive shipments.

Well it isn't like all the sales data and stock are available only to the individual store.  Higher ups in the company have access to those numbers. 

But you are absolutely right that there are anomalies that only the store would know that they wouldn't be able to predict.  That is why sometimes individual stores will get over or under stocked of certain products that defies what the numbers would say to do.  For instance, recently with one of the PSP games (can't remember which one) , we weren't sent a  small amount of copies that reflected sales numbers for PSP at our store, which like most have been rather dismal.  But something numbers can't show, is that we did have a larger, loyal group of PSP owners who did shop regularly there.  Sold out of the title rahter easily due to that.  Now obviously people in the store would have known that and requested more of the product or the buyers themselves could have helped out by reserving more which does help get more stock.  So won't say it is a perfect system, but that is how it works, at least for Gamestop.  I would assume for most other retail chains as well as the manager just isn't required to be of a high enough education to make those decisions.  

And I would disagree with the last point.  Being well stocked doesn't necessarily mean you won't receive more shipments.  One case this year has definitely been with Medal of Honor.  We received a large first shipment, which sold modestly.  Then we received a rather unusually large second shipment of the game as well.  Caused us to have a relatively large amount of the title when early sales didn't represent it.  Why?  My guess has been shared by others I know.  One being EA vastly overshipped and stores over bought, which is reflected by the unanimous Black Friday deals on the title.  Then a part two to that I would suspect is channel stuffing.  EA can have a lot of pull with retailers as it has a few titles under its belt that retailers are going to really want.  Therefore deals are struck for the success of both sides.  It gets a dirty name, but it happens.  So full warehouses are not good for a retailer, which is why they stuff as much stock as possible in individual stores where they can sell.

 

So yea it just doesn't happen at the individual store level and there are lots of reasons why certain titles are over and under shipped or over and under stocked in individual stores.  Politics of the business world I suppose.  However, I don't think this is the case with the PS3 as being suggested in the topic as I explained in the post, but it does happen.  Hope that kinda helps to describe it.  


Seems like an inefficient system, they might have to have higher standards for managers but I think it would be beneficial as a whole if gamestop were to let individual stores make orders. Thats how some larger chains do it but I guess gamestop stores may be too small in comparison to the bigger retailers for it to be worth it. 

When you let individual stores make orders you have a much larger margin of error due to the human element. Sure in some circumstances it may be beneficial, but overall it would be much less effective and cause more issues.



leatherhat said:


Seems like an inefficient system, they might have to have higher standards for managers but I think it would be beneficial as a whole if gamestop were to let individual stores make orders. Thats how some larger chains do it but I guess gamestop stores may be too small in comparison to the bigger retailers for it to be worth it. 

Well yea it is going to have its flaws, but considering the sheer amount of Gamestop stores, I think it works out for the best in the end.  Think there is over 7,000 stores around the world which is a lot haha.  



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You will sell more PS3s than usual in December. That said, if a retailer does end up with excessive stock of a product, the company who provided the excess usually has to buy it back in the end.

 



People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

When there are more laws, there are more criminals.

- Lao Tzu

Username2324 said:
leatherhat said:
Zucas said:
leatherhat said:
Zucas said:

Well first to settle a point, individual store managers DO NOT determine how much product their store gets.  If people would think about this logically they would understand why this makes no sense.  Managers don't require any form of higher education to obtain their job, so why would you put these people in charge of sales analysis of individual stores to gain trends to determine demand for the future.  Please think for a moment.  I'm not entirely sure, with the case of Gamestop for me, whether or not it comes from a district or a regional level, but in no way, shape, or form does the individual store have any control over the amount of product (aside from selling product).  

Now, to get back to the original post, starting somewhere in the summer, we did start to see an increase in PS3 stock at my Gamestop I work at.  Think in July.  Only a couple of months before this had our stock become normal, as most early part of 2010 we didn't have PS3s at all.  But from July till about October, we did obtain more and more PS3s than usual, despite not selling too many of them (don't sell many systems at all in the summer months anyways).  So for the most part up until Black Friday, we had a large quantity of PS3s in stock with not a lot of demand.  Now come Black Friday, we did sell a lot of them, but Wii and 360 were put into a sell out while PS3 just returned to normalcy.  

What do I think of it?  I don't think much of it at all.  We tend to get more stock in right before the holiday season, although it doesn't usually happen until early October instead of late July.  I think what caused this one for PS3 was the change from the 120 GB SKU to the 160 GB SKU.  Not entirely sure if that is the answer, but I think that would explain the abnormal increase for the late summer months.  Then obviously I would think the rest of the increases were just normal for holiday preparation.  Did it seem a little bit more than usual or more than the other competitors?  Yea maybe a little bit but I wouldn't have enough evidence to really say it is Sony channel stuffing.  I mean obviously all of the big 3 have done this at least one time or another so it is to be expected, but I don't know off of this that we could say whether or not they are doing it.  

Hope this helps, Infamous, in possibly figuring out the dilemma.  If ya have anymore questions on things happening in my store, I'm glad to answer them.


Then how exactly do they know what amounts to give each store? There has to  be some sort of accounting on the stores side so that the business would know how much to send. They could use educated guesses based on trends but surely on a store to store basis there would be anomalies that they wouldn't be able to predict. And surely if a store was so well stocked they wouldn't continue to receive shipments.

Well it isn't like all the sales data and stock are available only to the individual store.  Higher ups in the company have access to those numbers. 

But you are absolutely right that there are anomalies that only the store would know that they wouldn't be able to predict.  That is why sometimes individual stores will get over or under stocked of certain products that defies what the numbers would say to do.  For instance, recently with one of the PSP games (can't remember which one) , we weren't sent a  small amount of copies that reflected sales numbers for PSP at our store, which like most have been rather dismal.  But something numbers can't show, is that we did have a larger, loyal group of PSP owners who did shop regularly there.  Sold out of the title rahter easily due to that.  Now obviously people in the store would have known that and requested more of the product or the buyers themselves could have helped out by reserving more which does help get more stock.  So won't say it is a perfect system, but that is how it works, at least for Gamestop.  I would assume for most other retail chains as well as the manager just isn't required to be of a high enough education to make those decisions.  

And I would disagree with the last point.  Being well stocked doesn't necessarily mean you won't receive more shipments.  One case this year has definitely been with Medal of Honor.  We received a large first shipment, which sold modestly.  Then we received a rather unusually large second shipment of the game as well.  Caused us to have a relatively large amount of the title when early sales didn't represent it.  Why?  My guess has been shared by others I know.  One being EA vastly overshipped and stores over bought, which is reflected by the unanimous Black Friday deals on the title.  Then a part two to that I would suspect is channel stuffing.  EA can have a lot of pull with retailers as it has a few titles under its belt that retailers are going to really want.  Therefore deals are struck for the success of both sides.  It gets a dirty name, but it happens.  So full warehouses are not good for a retailer, which is why they stuff as much stock as possible in individual stores where they can sell.

 

So yea it just doesn't happen at the individual store level and there are lots of reasons why certain titles are over and under shipped or over and under stocked in individual stores.  Politics of the business world I suppose.  However, I don't think this is the case with the PS3 as being suggested in the topic as I explained in the post, but it does happen.  Hope that kinda helps to describe it.  


Seems like an inefficient system, they might have to have higher standards for managers but I think it would be beneficial as a whole if gamestop were to let individual stores make orders. Thats how some larger chains do it but I guess gamestop stores may be too small in comparison to the bigger retailers for it to be worth it. 

When you let individual stores make orders you have a much larger margin of error due to the human element. Sure in some circumstances it may be beneficial, but overall it would be much less effective and cause more issues.


Perhaps a joint system would work better. Let stores order based on their individual sales patterns, but keep min/max limits in place so no stores screw up their orders that badly. 

For example, Zucas's store could order more psp goods than is usual, but if they went way overboard their would be a check to stop them. 



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

BTW how much are you guys betting the "Stuffing channelz" excuses will continue all the way to next year hek maybe the whole next year specially if sony drops PS3 to $199?

That makes it 2 years of stuffing channelz LOL!!!



XxXProphecyXxX said:

BTW how much are you guys betting the "Stuffing channelz" excuses will continue all the way to next year hek maybe the whole next year specially if sony drops PS3 to $199?

That makes it 2 years of stuffing channelz LOL!!!


Elegantly stated



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

leatherhat said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:

BTW how much are you guys betting the "Stuffing channelz" excuses will continue all the way to next year hek maybe the whole next year specially if sony drops PS3 to $199?

That makes it 2 years of stuffing channelz LOL!!!


Elegantly stated


Here's a theory, maybe sony is sending a free  smokin hot hooker to retailers  that will do anything for them(drools*) if they promis to keep buying PS3's!!!!!