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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why does game storytelling have such low standards? [MGS4, HL2, etc.]

thelifatree on 18 April 2010
O-D-C said:
when developpes, all developpers set out to make a game, the gameplay SHOULD come 1st, everything else should be secondary, especially story, games arnt meant to be viewed or read, their meant to be PLAYED, if you want a great story read a book.

Im not saying games cant deliver a good story but if the gameplay dosn't compliment it then it's an excersise in futility.

In other words, I agree 100% with the OP

At sometimes the gameplay should come first

 

But at times I disagreeDisagree, The story and the Characters, the world can help create gameply ideas, with mecha, magic what have you that wouldn't be realized if you just trying to make something that's just gameplay, and it feels more Authentic


My point is that developers should do it both ways

 



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thelifatree on 18 April 2010
O-D-C said:
when developpes, all developpers set out to make a game, the gameplay SHOULD come 1st, everything else should be secondary, especially story, games arnt meant to be viewed or read, their meant to be PLAYED, if you want a great story read a book.

Im not saying games cant deliver a good story but if the gameplay dosn't compliment it then it's an excersise in futility.

In other words, I agree 100% with the OP

At sometimes the gameplay should come first


But at times I disagreeDisagree, The story and the Characters, the world can help create gameply ideas, with mecha, magic what have you that wouldn't be realized if you just trying to make something that's just gameplay, and it feels more Authentic


My point is that developers should do it both ways




O-D-C on 18 April 2010
thelifatree said:
O-D-C said:
when developpes, all developpers set out to make a game, the gameplay SHOULD come 1st, everything else should be secondary, especially story, games arnt meant to be viewed or read, their meant to be PLAYED, if you want a great story read a book.

Im not saying games cant deliver a good story but if the gameplay dosn't compliment it then it's an excersise in futility.

In other words, I agree 100% with the OP

At sometimes the gameplay should come first

 

But at times I disagreeDisagree, The story and the Characters, the world can help create gameply ideas, with mecha, magic what have you that wouldn't be realized if you just trying to make something that's just gameplay, and it feels more Authentic


My point is that developers should do it both ways

 

Look at Nintendo, specifically The Legend Of Zelda

Nintendo has stated many times that when they begin developing new Zelda games the 1st thing they work on is the gameplay mechanics, what will this game do differently, once that's established the games development begins, and the last thing decided on is the story.

Ocarina Of Time

Majora's Mask

Wind Waker

Twilight Princess

Spirit Tracks

and now Zelda Wii are all getting their stories put in LAST, while the gameplay gets the immidiate attention. Now Nintendo has been making Zelda games since 1987 and by following this formula have created the most critically acclaimed game series of all time, both in regards to gameplay and story. Why? Because by the time it comes to making the story elements they can perfectyl wrap it around the established gameplay pacing and formula.



thelifatree on 18 April 2010
O-D-C said:
thelifatree said:
O-D-C said:
when developpes, all developpers set out to make a game, the gameplay SHOULD come 1st, everything else should be secondary, especially story, games arnt meant to be viewed or read, their meant to be PLAYED, if you want a great story read a book.

Im not saying games cant deliver a good story but if the gameplay dosn't compliment it then it's an excersise in futility.

In other words, I agree 100% with the OP

At sometimes the gameplay should come first

 

But at times I disagreeDisagree, The story and the Characters, the world can help create gameply ideas, with mecha, magic what have you that wouldn't be realized if you just trying to make something that's just gameplay, and it feels more Authentic


My point is that developers should do it both ways

 

Look at Nintendo, specifically The Legend Of Zelda

Nintendo has stated many times that when they begin developing new Zelda games the 1st thing they work on is the gameplay mechanics, what will this game do differently, once that's established the games development begins, and the last thing decided on is the story.

Ocarina Of Time

Majora's Mask

Wind Waker

Twilight Princess

Spirit Tracks

and now Zelda Wii are all getting their stories put in LAST, while the gameplay gets the immidiate attention. Now Nintendo has been making Zelda games since 1987 and by following this formula have created the most critically acclaimed game series of all time, both in regards to gameplay and story. Why? Because by the time it comes to making the story elements they can perfectyl wrap it around the established gameplay pacing and formula.

Look At Final Fantasy. Does the exact opposite. If you don't like 13 you don't even have to include it.


And it works sales wise too


Look at Bioshock, The gameplay sucks, but the atmosphere/Story makes it one of the best games this gen.

Look at the Longest Journey, (A PC classic you might not know), it's just small puzzles and storeys, the world came first

 

All I'm saying is yes you can do gameplay 1st then story. I'm just saying you can do story 1st gamplay 2nd and it comes out just fine as well.

In both instances it has to be done correctly



KingFate on 18 April 2010

If you think gaming has weak story telling, play Legacy of Kain series, that is better than many movies and books.



PSN ID: KingFate_

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AbbathTheGrim on 18 April 2010

So now a game is to be blamed as having a bad story if people can't keep up with the storyline. Yeah, bad storyline, we should all keep watching Sesame Street.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

Stanislav.Ten on 18 April 2010
scottie said:
thelifatree said:
A really high percentage of movies have a bad story. Such as avatar, overly simple, incredibley stereotyped and it's the highest grosisng movie ever.

Haha, Avatar has a great story :P too bad it stole it!

 


  Like Totally. The movies are slowly becoming worse and worse, last I have seen the Legion, the second worst movie I have seen in my life, no acting, some crappy storyline and just plain retarded action scenes, the most lamest piece of crap I have witnessed to date.



 

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thelifatree on 18 April 2010
Soriku said:
contestgamer said:
Storytelling >>> Gameplay.

Gameplay is probably more important to children, but when you grow up to being an adult you begin searching for meaning and thoughtful dialogue in the world around you. Playing mindless games just doesn't cut it anymore if you are intellectually minded. Having a deep, involving story and gameplay that conforms TO the story is what will make video games an accepted art form among adults, like literature, film etc is.

Why waste my precious time and intellect on games like Gears when I can play MGS1,2,3,4 or Braid or Xenogears and Planescape torment and really learn about myself and the world and become a more complete, open minded, intelligent and better person for it?


As good a story as games have, if they have bad gameplay that bogs down the game...

The best games have good story telling and gameplay (as well as other things like music, characters, and optionally graphics). Gameplay should come before story but that doesn't mean the story should be super boring.

I'm just some instances such as bioshock where the gameplay is clunky as all hell, but decent. That the story being the focus saving the game.

Obviously you can still have a good game with a disaster of a story. But you can't have a good game with a disaster of a game but a good story. EX Dirge of Cerberus.



The Ghost of RubangB on 18 April 2010

I was just going to defend Half-Life 2 and say it's amazing not for the story, but for the storytelling. Then I read makingmusic's post that quoted that Sean Riley character's response to the OP. Beat me to it. Great post too!

And while I haven't played Ico yet, I've played Out of This World several times, and that's Ico's biggest inspiration. I can't gush about Out of This World enough. It inspired games like Ico that allegedly "got it right" and games like Metal Gear Solid that are convoluted cutscene fests. It inspired everything. It has almost no story, but the way it's told.... damn, that's the stuff.


And no no no, games don't need stories. Movies and books and songs don't even need stories. Does anybody care about the story of "Thriller?" No. But they love how the story is told through horror cliches, funky basslines, zombie dance moves, and Vincent Price. Any of those on their own is just "pretty cool," but the way they're mixed into a story is "totally awesome." Citizen Kane isn't considered by so many to be the greatest film of all time due to the story. It's considered the best for its storytelling, starting with the ending, then the news report, and mostly for the contradicting flashbacks with different points of view. Same goes for games.



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thelifatree on 18 April 2010
The Ghost of RubangB said:
I was just going to defend Half-Life 2 and say it's amazing not for the story, but for the storytelling. Then I read makingmusic's post that quoted that Sean Riley character's response to the OP. Beat me to it. Great post too!

And while I haven't played Ico yet, I've played Out of This World several times, and that's Ico's biggest inspiration. I can't gush about Out of This World enough. It inspired games like Ico that allegedly "got it right" and games like Metal Gear Solid that are convoluted cutscene fests. It inspired everything. It has almost no story, but the way it's told.... damn, that's the stuff.


And no no no, games don't need stories. Movies and books and songs don't even need stories. Does anybody care about the story of "Thriller?" No. But they love how the story is told through horror cliches, funky basslines, zombie dance moves, and Vincent Price. Any of those on their own is just "pretty cool," but the way they're mixed into a story is "totally awesome." Citizen Kane isn't considered by so many to be the greatest film of all time due to the story. It's considered the best for its storytelling, starting with the ending, then the news report, and mostly for the contradicting flashbacks with different points of view. Same goes for games.

I find cutscenes good because it's a change of pace.

I also found shadow of colosus amazing

I don't thinks storytelling, stories should be in one set format beceause like movies there are many ways to tell agood story. And people like stories in different ways

Many people enjoy the metal gear cutscene fests... they're very much like anime at some points. So to say there shouldn't be videogames like that, is like saying that videogames should be catered to you only. And besides MGS4, the pacing in MGS 1 especially was excellent and taught.

There is no perfect way to tell a story. IMO It's just the creator needs to apply the storytelling techniques that best fit the thing he is trying to create.

 

would you want Solid Snake not to have any of his witty banter? Via Codec and things. I think most MGS fans want that. The pacing and quality of storytelling (4 was the only one I had a problem with) needs to be improved