Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

[uran10]

tsogud said:

uran10 said:

Unfortunately for you, you're wrong. But I will say I never cared for Pressley and she was the only Justice Dem I've been sceptical of from the start, especially considering she endorsed Hillary and tried to make the case that she was more progressive than bernie so.... yea. I don't exactly consider that endorsement "amazing". But she does love Israel so........ anyway everyone knew she was gonna endorse Warren, same state, and the fact that she is more pro establishment than the rest. Anyway that's all I'll say on that, Its good to know that you take the time to watch Krystal and Sagaar tho :)

Actually let me say one more thing: I follow politician's records and rhetoric. Me being critical of Warren comes from her proving to me that she's not a fighter nor really truly progressive. She co-opts ideas, waters them down and does this means tested everything. In a comparison with Bernie she's a watered down version in almost every way and on top of that, she's just not a fighter. She's been late to how many parties? She's said one thing that calls out the establishment just to backpedal how many times? The Worst thing was her waffling on M4A and now that she's released her god awful plan that would hurt not only the middle class but small businesses, that's also full of loopholes... well... you get the point now. I like AOC, I love Rashida Tlaib and I love Ilhan. They all have flaws, and I'm still sceptical of them all but so far, they're doing well. Unfortunately, Pressley has never been in that category for me. I wont call her a liar or a fraud or anything of the sort, but she's trying to do the exact same game as Warren. Play both sides and ride the waves up in power, and just like Warren I'll call her out on that trash the moment she tries it to go higher. And Honestly, I've been wondering if I would support a primary challenger for her or not. So far voting aint garbage... well not completely atleast but I do want someone who is more progressive than her in that seat. I've been thinking like that for a while now and I know Jimmy dore brought it up way back when I watched him when she first got in. He highlighted that she's the sketchiest of them all and I agree. Maybe she'll prove me wrong, maybe not. I'm expecting her not to. My point is, trust goes a long way. I trust AOC, but not that much, she's been doing things that worry me. I really trust Ilhan and Tlaib tho. I'm still watching them both as they both do questionable things, but Tlaib so far seems to be the best. So instead of trying to be like "uran will bring up a video about x,y,z" maybe you should also do deep dives on the politicians and inspect their record, their rhetoric and their actions.

I never supported warren, 2016 was enough for me to go LOL NO. I like Tulsi and I somewhat support her as her FP is great, but the longer she goes on the more missteps I see that give me pause. I can understand Yang, but I think he's a libertarian trojan Horse and since he's now on that big money train, doesn't support M4A but says he'll use the same and his key platform UBI is a very bad implementation of it, I wouldn't ever support him either. and IMO Bernie, Tulsi and Yang are the only people bringing something to the table in the primaries, I legit see reasons why they're running while I don't see why Warren is running. She's running on a watered down Bernie platform and running around "I have a plan". Sounds very egocentric vs the "Not me, Us" That bernie goes around with doesn't it? All of this was to say something very simple and that is I dissect everything and everyone running and who they get endorsed by doesn't really matter to me as it says more about the person endorsing than the candidate half the time. And I hate to break it to you (I don't actually), but someone with Warren's political instincts is food for trump.

@Mnementh I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I quite frankly would hate a Bernie Warren ticket and Bernie himself has said that he wont have a white person on his ticket. A younger, woman of colour is specifically what he said. I do not trust warren as I've stated before and I don't see them on the same side at all. She's taken his signature policy and made a version of it that is so god awful that it would never pass and calls it a long term goal. She ha bad political instincts and honestly, she lies too much. She's known as bobblehead in her state for a reason and that behaviour is what someone does when they're lying. Let me be frank, Warren on Bernie's ticket will hurt Bernie's chances of winning vs trump. She's not the well liked and she keeps making mistakes and on policy like i stated above, she has no reason to be running. IMO she's in there to kill the progressive energy we have just like Obama did. I'm sure you can see the similarities and can see why I say this. I'm sorry but I just can't. After 2016 how can anyone even trust her and support her? How can you do so after standing rock? How can you do so after she lied over and over and over again? I just can't with her she's not trustworthy and she's not a fighter. That's why she has a means tested approach to everything. This is a turning point, a once in a lifetime shot to change trajectory and if Warren wins the primary everything goes up in smoke. We don't have time for middle ground and that's what she is.

I say this as a big Sanders supporter but I don't think you're fair to Warren at all. She and Pressley are progressives in their own right, they just have a different way at tackling the problems we're facing than the rest of the squad and Bernie. I don't agree with Warren's and Pressley's strategy and policies but that doesn't mean they're on the "wrong" side here. Blind cynicism can make friends look like enemies. At the end of the day the Warren and Sanders camp are on the same side of this fight.

And I disagree. I treat Warren the exact same way I treat everyone else. I already said it, I have 1 major issue first, thats money in politics. She's taken big money, used it in her presidential run and plan on taking it again in the general. Money is the root of corruption in american politics. As Bernie says, you can't fight the system while taking its money. She's backpedalled hard on so many issues, lied time and time again and now put out the most disingenuous argument for paying for M4A that will hurt the movement. And for Pressley, I'll just say she endorsed Hillary and claimed hillary was progressive, even tried to say moreso than Sanders. I'm very simple. You take that big money and you're out. On top of that, there are a hell of a lot of red flags. The Media doesn't like progressives, so why does Warren get so much good coverage while Bernie gets a blackout or smeared? I'm sorry but Warren is imo a fake friend to the movement. Honestly tho, look at how they treat Bernie, Tulsi and even Yang vs how they treat Warren. Look at Warren lying and equivocating on most issues when pressed about how she's just like Bernie.

Our main thing is that the system is corrupt and the main reasoning for that is money and that's why we can't get anything we the people want. Why would I think someone who has taken and will take that money is an ally or will fight against that system? We treat Pete like crap when he says that but no one hammers Warren for it in the same way? I'm sorry but no, I don't see them on the same side. Warren's meeting with Hillary, and courting the dem elite, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY WILL DO A SUPER DELEGATE REVOLT AGAINST BERNIE! You can call me cynical, but the more Warren talks, the more she "does", the more I get annoyed and angry cause all I see is this liar who keeps clinging to Bernie's coattail while undermining the movement at the same time. You say they're on the same side, but instead of focusing on issues she used the "Bernie's a white man and we don't need that rn" argument. Sure she didn't specify bernie but we all know the implications. Which ally is gonna throw you under the bus like that? oh yea, the fake / enemy kind!