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Pemalite said: 
EricHiggin said: 

1550MHz seems too high, unless Navi has some voodoo magic or the PS5 is an XB1 at launch. XB1X is only 1175MHz, and that's with a vapor chamber heatsink.

7nm brings with it a slew of advantages in regards to power consumption and heat production.

Correct, depending on how many TF it ends up at overall. The higher the clocks the lower the CU count most likely, if it's going to fit in launch PS4 sized shell for cheap. If it can run at 1500MHz and hit around 10TF, that'll be pretty impressive.

Pemalite said: 
EricHiggin said: 

I'm not worried about Zen 2 in terms of design or being ready, I'm worried about price. How much is a 6 core Ryzen 2 going to cost on 10nm or 7nm by late 2019, and hot much cheaper will PS get it for? While it should be semi custom and not a full blown Ryzen 2, I see the price potentially being an issue, unless they scale back elsewhere, up the launch price, or eat some more cost. If they had a long enough lead over Scarlet, they could just go with $499 for the first 6 months to a year, especially with the 25th anni hype.

You can't just look at the off-the-shelf pricing and assume that is what Microsoft/Sony is going to pay.
Ryzen 2 should be cost competitive with current Ryzen chips anyway.
A 6-core Ryzen 2 is likely a reduced single CCX anyway if the CCX is boosted to 8 cores, more than possible for a monolithic console SOC.

I'm not, since it will probably be semi custom. 7nm apparently is still fairly expensive compared to 14nm, but I guess that could change between now and mid 2019. A custom 6 core CPU/APU would also mean more dies per wafer, so that would also save some on cost to manufacture. Still doesn't seem like it'll be cheap, or near as cheap as Jaguar would have been.

Pemalite said: 
EricHiggin said: 

The memory does seem off. Either a 20GB pool, or 16GB with separate OS RAM like you said.

Needs to be power of 2. Or split pools.
So... 16/24/32GB are the likely GDDR6 pools.
Or... 16GB GDDR6+4/8GB DDR4.

I don't see OS memory usage decrease over the prior generation... Don't think that has ever happened in any successive console release.

20 available to devs, 24 overall. My bad. I would think PS would follow the XB1 8GB to XB1X 12GB RAM approach (minus DDR/eSRAM) instead of PS4 to Pro when it comes to next gen. That would more easily allow the 16GB for devs at launch, then maybe 24GB for devs mid gen.

fatslob-:O said:
EricHiggin said:

1550MHz seems too high, unless Navi has some voodoo magic or the PS5 is an XB1 at launch. XB1X is only 1175MHz, and that's with a vapor chamber heatsink.

The memory does seem off. Either a 20GB pool, or 16GB with separate OS RAM like you said.

I'm not worried about Zen 2 in terms of design or being ready, I'm worried about price. How much is a 6 core Ryzen 2 going to cost on 10nm or 7nm by late 2019, and hot much cheaper will PS get it for? While it should be semi custom and not a full blown Ryzen 2, I see the price potentially being an issue, unless they scale back elsewhere, up the launch price, or eat some more cost. If they had a long enough lead over Scarlet, they could just go with $499 for the first 6 months to a year, especially with the 25th anni hype.

The GPU clock is possible since the AMD engineers behind the Zen CPU microarchitecture spent time on optimizing Vega's cache (that's where they blew most of the transistor budget on the new design) so that the whole GPU could achieve higher clocks and that's without using GlobalFoundries 12nm refresh node which is rumored for their upcoming new Polaris chip but that'll still probably clock lower compared to Vega ... 

Navi will probably be built on 7nm but we don't have any idea if Sony is prototyping with it or if it's final shipping hardware since the original Orbis prototype featured 3rd generation Terascale chip equivalent to an AMD Radeon 6950 instead of a customized 2nd generation GCN chip like we saw shipping on base hardware ... 

I'd assume that the architecture is still a moving target so that they can still bake in some more new hardware features though but the ballpark specs sounds fine for developing next gen games ... 

It's not so much that I think it can't hit 1500MHz, I just find it hard to believe it's going to do so, with a high CU count, at around 10TF, in a PS4 sized console. Maybe it will, and if it does, that'll be something to boast about, if the cooling system is remarkably quieter this time around that is.

Intrinsic said:
EricHiggin said:

While on one hand with XB trying to make all their consoles look similar so the customer can physically see the connection between them, PS has said they wish to remain with the typical generational change, which should mean a completely different looking console like in the past.

As for the specs, with a late 2019 25th anniversary launch, I'd say they probably wouldn't be all that far off at 6 Ryzen cores and Navi around 10TF, on 10nm-7nm, but I have a hard time believing it's Zen 2.  Ryzen, or maybe Ryzen+, but not Ryzen 2. That line of CPU's won't launch until early to mid 2019, so that would be way to new to go into a PS5 6 months or a year later. Also too many ports. Maybe for dev kits, but not for retail. 2TB should be the absolute min for the base console since Pro is already getting 2TB models. I'd also assume a $499 price unless PS eats $100 per unit.

errrr...... MS tried to make their consoles across generations look similar? I think you are wrong on that one. The XB looked totaly different from the 360 whic was totally different from the XB1. Hell we could even argue that the XB1s looks totally different from the XB1.

A ryzen 7 1800x cpu (8 cores and 16 threads, 14nm) currently retails for around $250. That means sony can get it for as little as $150 as an OEM or even less. And thats if they are building the PS5 to launch this year. And if you think the next gen consles will come with a 10TF GPU then you are in for a surprise.

Make no mistake, the PS5/XB2 will be using 7nm chips. AMDs range of chips are shifting to 7nm next year and the next gen consoles won't be coming till 2020. By the time the next gen consoles come along 7nm fab will already be a 12 to 18 months old. And before you talk about too early to go intop next gen consoles, think back at 2016. The PS4pro got a 16nm(14nm) chip less than 6 months after AMD started making them.

As for storage, I am almost convinced they are switching to an M.2 interface. Not just for future proofing but because right now everyone is usng them. You can currently get a 1TB M.2 sata drive for as little as $130 which means for an OEM they can get that for less tha half that and in 2020 even lower. 

Since XB1, and more so XB1S. XB1 was just a horrible design all around if your looking at a console consumer product. Phil even said they made sure XB1X resembled them so people would know they have compatibility.

That's another reason why I think it's not Zen 2. I would say as low as 8TF and as high as 12TF, if it's going to launch around late 2019. I myself however assume 10 since it seems to be the middle ground. I would much rather have a beefier CPU portion than GPU if it requires meeting a certain price point. Slightly better PS4/Pro graphics are fine as long as they lock it at 60FPS when devs want more than 30.

If PS5 uses 7nm at launch, they have to hope that 5nm isn't more than 3 or 4 years afterwards for a slim or upgrade though. Intel still stuck on 14nm makes me wonder. Pro and slim got 16nm chips fairly early, but those were from TSMC. AMD was using GloFo and 14nm. Mind you, AMD is now going to use TSMC for the majority if not all Zen 2, 7nm chips, so it's hard to say, depending on if PS5 uses Ryzen, +, or Zen 2.

M.2 might make sense based on the leak info. You could have a 2TB HDD model, and a 1TB M.2 model, and let the customer choose if they would rather have more storage or more speed. The customers who buy the 1TB model could then simply spend another $50 to $100 on a 4TB+ external HDD if they want more space for cheap. They could probably also spend more and get a 2TB to 4TB (or larger in the future) 2.5" internal HDD to keep things sleek and simple. Whoever buys the 2TB HDD model, may even be able to wait a year or two for M.2 prices to go down, while storage goes up, and install one themselves for more speed.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.