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Forums - General Discussion - Pope condemns gay equality laws ahead of first UK visit

Rath on 04 February 2010

@Bimmylee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

We are animals and animals do for some reason engage in homosexuality. Black Swans are especially interesting as they form monogamous relationships like humans in the western world, they do a sort of 'fertility clinic' as well so that a homosexual pair can raise cygnets.



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highwaystar101 on 04 February 2010

I reckon there must be an evolutionary reason for homosexuality. A group of animals that are 90% heterosexual must be able to out survive another group of animals who are 100% heterosexual. I don't know what that reason is though, but I'm sure there is one...

Answers on a postcard please guys



Alterego-X on 04 February 2010
highwaystar101 said:
I reckon there must be an evolutionary reason for homosexuality. A group of animals that are 90% heterosexual must be able to out survive another group of animals who are 100% heterosexual. I don't know what that reason is though, but I'm sure there is one...

Answers on a postcard please guys

IIRC the same gene that causes homosexuality in male offsprings, increases fertility in females.  Though I just heard it on another forum, and didn't check it, so it might be not true.



Strategyking92 on 04 February 2010

Lol, I'm glad I'm baptist.. Right message, wrong ways to get it across. Need.. Democratic process, not a dictator.



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bimmylee on 04 February 2010
highwaystar101 said:
bimmylee said:
stof said:
@ bimmylee - If everyone in the world were suddenly homosexual, fertilization clinics and sperm bank business would boom and the world would keep on chugging just fine.

Homosexuality means you prefer the physical and emotional relations of the same sex. It doesn't mean your physically incapable of breeding.

You missed the part where I mentioned that reproduction is a key function for "all creatures"... plants and animals included. Notice that homosexual animals are eliminated from the gene pool because they can't reproduce, and they are in the unfortunate predicament of not having animal fertilization clinics or animal sperm banks. For them, it certainly does mean that they are incapable of breeding; you won't be able to convince a homosexual animal to behave otherwise. You do bring up a good point when you say that humans have the means of getting around this issue; this can lead us to only one of two conclusions:

A) We are not animals. (This opens up a whole new can of worms, as you might imagine.)

OR

B) We are animals, but for some inexplicable reason, we are capable of contradicting essential psychological behaviors that allow animals to survive.

Humans are animals, just sayin'...

Anyway, on topic. Are you suggesting that animals can't be gay? Try telling that to my extremely gay dog Oliver lol.

Haha, no, I didn't mean to imply such a thing. Animals can absolutely be gay. It's just that it's impossible for them to pass the trait down. I was saying that it's nature's way of weeding out traits that don't promote reproduction.

 

@Rath

I should have clarified; yes, you are correct that humans are certainly "animals," but only in the most basic biological sense; there's an infinite number of things (psychological, sociological, etc.) that drastically separates our behavior from theirs. That's what I was getting at.



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JustinUK on 04 February 2010

With regards to the pope and his visit to the UK. There is a petition asking the government not to fund his estimated £20M visit. I've signed it and will be at the protest in September. This man, in my opinion, says nothing but hate towards me and my fellow LGBT men and women.



Kasz216 on 04 February 2010
highwaystar101 said:
I reckon there must be an evolutionary reason for homosexuality. A group of animals that are 90% heterosexual must be able to out survive another group of animals who are 100% heterosexual. I don't know what that reason is though, but I'm sure there is one...

Answers on a postcard please guys

The answer is...

homosexuality isn't genetic.  It's not a choice either... nor is it social... but it's not genetic really.

There isn't a gay gene persay, it's a condition within a woman's womb that causes it... and the more offspring you have, the more likely it is the next child will be gay.



MontanaHatchet on 04 February 2010
stof said:
@ bimmylee - If everyone in the world were suddenly homosexual, fertilization clinics and sperm bank business would boom and the world would keep on chugging just fine.

Homosexuality means you prefer the physical and emotional relations of the same sex. It doesn't mean your physically incapable of breeding.

I'm all for everything and junk (my new way of saying I'm tolerant), but I don't think that's true. Just look at Europe. The birth rates there are dangerously low, even with the majority of people being straight. Generally, you need a 2.1 fertility rate to have a stable population, with an even higher rate needed for a population to have moderate growth. Do you really think we'll have such rates in a world where everyone is homosexual and babies are made through some kind of sterile fertility process?



 

 

stof on 05 February 2010
MontanaHatchet said:
stof said:
@ bimmylee - If everyone in the world were suddenly homosexual, fertilization clinics and sperm bank business would boom and the world would keep on chugging just fine.

Homosexuality means you prefer the physical and emotional relations of the same sex. It doesn't mean your physically incapable of breeding.

I'm all for everything and junk (my new way of saying I'm tolerant), but I don't think that's true. Just look at Europe. The birth rates there are dangerously low, even with the majority of people being straight. Generally, you need a 2.1 fertility rate to have a stable population, with an even higher rate needed for a population to have moderate growth. Do you really think we'll have such rates in a world where everyone is homosexual and babies are made through some kind of sterile fertility process?

Well this is a pretty out there hypthetical, but Yes, I think there would still be a lot of reproduction if it were seperated from pleasurable sex. It would certainly eliminate all accidental and unwanted pregnancies, but most human beings want kids. A lot of people might seek the clinical way to get kids, but what would probably be even more popular would be swapping. John and Derrick want kids, Sarah and Melissa want kids. So John and Sarah and Derrick and Melissa have some possibly boring, possibly enjoyable but generally practical sex, and hey look, there are kids!

 

As for the population thing. Yes it's low in some parts of the world, but it's also a lot higher in others. And on the whole there's a damn lot of people out there and some "unstable" population grouth really wouldn't be a bad thing.

But again, this is just a loony hypothetical to point out that while homosexuality does reduce the desire to engage in the kind of sex that leads to children, it does not eliminate either the desire to have children of the ability to do so.



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Kasz216 on 05 February 2010
stof said:
MontanaHatchet said:
stof said:
@ bimmylee - If everyone in the world were suddenly homosexual, fertilization clinics and sperm bank business would boom and the world would keep on chugging just fine.

Homosexuality means you prefer the physical and emotional relations of the same sex. It doesn't mean your physically incapable of breeding.

I'm all for everything and junk (my new way of saying I'm tolerant), but I don't think that's true. Just look at Europe. The birth rates there are dangerously low, even with the majority of people being straight. Generally, you need a 2.1 fertility rate to have a stable population, with an even higher rate needed for a population to have moderate growth. Do you really think we'll have such rates in a world where everyone is homosexual and babies are made through some kind of sterile fertility process?

Well this is a pretty out there hypthetical, but Yes, I think there would still be a lot of reproduction if it were seperated from pleasurable sex. It would certainly eliminate all accidental and unwanted pregnancies, but most human beings want kids. A lot of people might seek the clinical way to get kids, but what would probably be even more popular would be swapping. John and Derrick want kids, Sarah and Melissa want kids. So John and Sarah and Derrick and Melissa have some possibly boring, possibly enjoyable but generally practical sex, and hey look, there are kids!

 

As for the population thing. Yes it's low in some parts of the world, but it's also a lot higher in others. And on the whole there's a damn lot of people out there and some "unstable" population grouth really wouldn't be a bad thing.

But again, this is just a loony hypothetical to point out that while homosexuality does reduce the desire to engage in the kind of sex that leads to children, it does not eliminate either the desire to have children of the ability to do so.

That would be like the worst idea ever.  People aren't responsible enough on average for that kind of thing.

If one child gets a genetic disease the other doesn't or one ends up smarter, etc.

Waaay to many problems with that.