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Forums - General Discussion - Nobel Peace Prize-winner Obama spending more on nuclear weapons than Bush

Kantor said:
Could somebody please explain to me what the point of this nuke stockpiling is? Because I genuinely don't understand. If you're going to nuke North Korea, you don't need 5500 warheads. If you're going to nuke North Korea, and the entire Middle East, you don't need 5500 warheads. If you're going to carpet nuke Asia, you might need 5500 warheads.

Which would suggest that Mr. Peace Prize Winner wants to carpet nuke Asia. I highly doubt that.

Just keep in mind that in 1999 they had 12.000 nuclear warheads... it's not easy and cheap to get rid of them..



 

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Kantor said:
Could somebody please explain to me what the point of this nuke stockpiling is? Because I genuinely don't understand. If you're going to nuke North Korea, you don't need 5500 warheads. If you're going to nuke North Korea, and the entire Middle East, you don't need 5500 warheads. If you're going to carpet nuke Asia, you might need 5500 warheads.

Which would suggest that Mr. Peace Prize Winner wants to carpet nuke Asia. I highly doubt that.

A few simple reasons:

  • Accuracy
  • Volume

We have a lot of warheads from decades gone by when nuclear weapons were not accurate. When we hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were actually miles off course. We had to maintain a large stockpile to ensure we actually....Hit the target. Most US/Russian nuclear targets are designated for multiple strikes to ensure an area is decimated. With the advent of more accurate ICBMs and targeting measures, its a bit easier to hit what your aiming for, thus the reduction of stockpiles.

Volume-wise, the ORBAT for nuclear warfare is to hit targets a few times, let some time pass, then strike again when the survivors have come out. I would also mention that not every nuke is a city-buster. There are many in the stockpiles that aren't very large, and are tactical in nature. Finally, one assumes that some of the nukes, in a strike, would be deflected by aircraft, SAMs or other such weaponry.

 

.

 

That doesn't mean that I think we need that many. I could see having that many *if* focused on deflecting asteroids and other space objects, but not scorching other countries. The US could probably decimate Russia with 100 modern nukes, if not less. Same goes for Russia.



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@MrStick.

Your comments or Hiroshima/Nagasaki don't make that much sense considering they were gravity bombs (as opposed to the warheads currently used) and actually pretty much on target. I think Hiroshima was ~200m out and Nagasaki pretty much dead on?



My bad, Hiroshima was about 900ft (240m) off target, and Nagasaki was about where it needed to be. But from my understanding, most missle-launched systems weren't as accurate requiring more nukes.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
Kantor said:
Could somebody please explain to me what the point of this nuke stockpiling is? Because I genuinely don't understand. If you're going to nuke North Korea, you don't need 5500 warheads. If you're going to nuke North Korea, and the entire Middle East, you don't need 5500 warheads. If you're going to carpet nuke Asia, you might need 5500 warheads.

Which would suggest that Mr. Peace Prize Winner wants to carpet nuke Asia. I highly doubt that.

A few simple reasons:

  • Accuracy
  • Volume

We have a lot of warheads from decades gone by when nuclear weapons were not accurate. When we hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we were actually miles off course. We had to maintain a large stockpile to ensure we actually....Hit the target. Most US/Russian nuclear targets are designated for multiple strikes to ensure an area is decimated. With the advent of more accurate ICBMs and targeting measures, its a bit easier to hit what your aiming for, thus the reduction of stockpiles.

Volume-wise, the ORBAT for nuclear warfare is to hit targets a few times, let some time pass, then strike again when the survivors have come out. I would also mention that not every nuke is a city-buster. There are many in the stockpiles that aren't very large, and are tactical in nature. Finally, one assumes that some of the nukes, in a strike, would be deflected by aircraft, SAMs or other such weaponry.

 

.

 

That doesn't mean that I think we need that many. I could see having that many *if* focused on deflecting asteroids and other space objects, but not scorching other countries. The US could probably decimate Russia with 100 modern nukes, if not less. Same goes for Russia.

You also need to take account that nuclear missiles are very vunerable in early stages of flight so at least russians planned to launch their missiles after american warheads hit. That's why they need this many to ensure that whatever is left will be enough.



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We are unsure how long a nuclear warhead is viable due to natural radioactive decay of the warhead. Since we don't test nukes anymore and have to rely on computer simulations, they remake them just to make sure they do go off.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

Rath said:

@NJ5. Nuclear weapons aren't secure/not secure. If Highway's conjecture is correct they will merely be going from very secure to even more very secure.

Obviously I didn't mean to imply that there are nuclear weapons stored at the basement of a Walmart store :P

I was thinking in the current context of Obama attempting to reduce a budget deficit. It would seem that any superfluous spending would not be taken. So my point stands that this looks like an accusation that Bush wasn't spending enough.

 



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