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Forums - Microsoft - A few questions for HD-DVD fans

I'd buy a cheap dual player, or wait until one side or the other won.
So exactly what I'm doing right now, price has nothing to do with it.

Even if I bought a player for $1, I'd still buy movies (for a lot more money), and those could become obsolete if I backed the wrong horse.

But having said that, I'm naturally inclined to avoid whatever Sony backs after all the failed formats they have pushed over the years (Betamax, MiniDisc, the PSP movie discs)...



We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that they [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine and half years? It's a learning process. - SCEI president Kaz Hirai

It's a virus where you buy it and you play it with your friends and they're like, "Oh my God that's so cool, I'm gonna go buy it." So you stop playing it after two months, but they buy it and they stop playing it after two months but they've showed it to someone else who then go out and buy it and so on. Everyone I know bought one and nobody turns it on. - Epic Games president Mike Capps

We have a real culture of thrift. The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games. - Activision CEO Bobby Kotick

 

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@FOOD88:

Your argument is flawed in that neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray really have any appeal to "common folk" and are both still firmly entrenched in "niche" territory. The average person probably has no idea that certain movies come out on one format and not the other, and further probably doesn't care because they don't have an HDTV anyway. The only factor that would appeal to this level of consumer right now is price, and that is where HD-DVD has its greatest advantage in terms of public appearance.

Also, you're missing the point of the ethernet port. It allows studios to implement internet-specific features into their releases, and can also provide access to new revenue streams through downloadable content and online stores. This adds to the potential for studios in the area most important to them: gross margin return on investment. If it becomes clear that they are certain to make more profit on HD-DVD, you can be sure that they will start to support it.



Hates Nomura.

Tagged: GooseGaws - <--- Has better taste in games than you.

The Bayeux Tapestry

It is not an easy matter to provide an outline of an essentially pictorial lecture, so I'll simply offer you some background and suggest some sites that provide an opportunity of viewing the tapesty itself. There is an extraordinarily fine site, the Bayeux Tapestry virtual tour, which shows the tapestry in Quick Time. You will need QT software to view these pages, but you can download this free of charge from [www.apple.com/fr/quicktime/download/]. The site allows you to view the tapestry as a continuous roll, the way you would viewed it if you were to visit the Museum where it is now displayed. By contrast, The Hastings 1066 site provides several thumb-nail images as an index of the tapestry so that you can quickly access whichever panel you want to examine more closely. Another good site is the Victorian copy of the Bayeux Tapestry at the Museum of Reading, England.

The Bayeux Tapestry is one of the most important pictorial works surviving from the middle ages, and certainly the most important from the eleventh century. It is not really a tapestry, but an embroidery of colored wool on an unbleached linen background. It comprises a series of connected panels two hundred and three feet in length, with each of the panels about eighteen inches high. Much of what we know about its origins is a matter of guesswork. It was almost certainly the work of English embroiderers, and was most probably produced in the famous embroidery works of Winchester. The best guess is that it was commissioned by Odo, bishop of Bayeux, William the Conqueror's half-brother, and one of the leading figures in the invasion of England. It was perhaps completed on 1077 in time for the consecration of the new cathedral at Bayeux. Or perhaps it was finished in 1083. Historians can argue endlessly about such things. Some have suggested that it was hung around the nave of Bayeux cathedral on feast days, but it doesn't seem to have made for that specific purpose since it is not long enough to reach completely around the nave.

During the French Revolution, it was hauled out to cover a wagon-load of ammunition being sent to the northern front where the Republican French were being attacked by Monarchist enemies. A young lawyer of Bayeux pulled the tapestry from the wagon and replaced it with a oiled and waterproof cloth much better suited for the purpose. He carried the tapestry home, and hid it in his attic, where it remained for the next thirty years. When it as brought out, it was turned over to the bishop of Bayeux, who placed it in the bishop's palace. It has remained there, except for a short time when the Nazis took it to Paris for scientific examination. The bishop's palace is now a museum in which the tapestry is on permanent display and viewed by thousands of visitors a year. Americans form a large portion of the crowds, since the beaches on which US troops landed on 6 June 1944 to begin the Allied invasion of Europe lie only a couple of miles north of Bayeux and there is a large cemetery of American war dead not too far away. If you get to Bayeux in late September, you'll be in time for the Calvados season. Calvados is Norman cider. Go at it easy; it'll tear your throat out and leave you with a headache that you'll never forget, if you somehow manage to live through it.

The first half of the Tapestry depict the adventures of Harold Godwinson, who was wrecked in Ponthieu in 1064 and was ransomed from the count of Ponthieu by William, duke of Normandy (1046-1087). Its portrayal of these events is entirely from the Norman point of view and serves as a justification of William's invasion and conquest of England in the Autumn of 1066. Harold is portrayed as a usurper who foreswore his sacred oath to support William as the successor to Edward the Confessor, king of England.

The second half shows William's preparations for the invasion of England, the decisive battle of Hastings -- in which Harold was killed -- and ends with the retreat of the defeated English. The last part, perhaps some twenty-five feet, of the Tapestry is incomplete, and its account may have continued to the point at which William was crowed king at Westminster Abbey, near London. Since this was apparently the place pictured in the first panel, such a conclusion would had a significant symmetry. The entire work would then have commenced with old King Edward seated in state at Westminister and would have concluded with the new King William seated in state at the same place. This is entirely guesswork, however. One of the advantages of missing or incomplete documents is that they offer some scope for the exercise of one's imagination.

One cannot use the Tapestry as a source for political history, since it is biased, and also because it is a very complex "document." The upper and lower borders are mostly simply decoration, but sometimes show scenes that may be comments upon or clarifications of the story unfolding in the middle section. Some of these scenes can be identified as being from the Bible or Aesop's Fables, but the sources of others are unknown and the significance of the scenes obscure at best. One might use as an example, the panel that portrays Harold and his men eating and drinking in an upper room while waiting for a fair wind to the Continent. The Norman account of these events claims that King Edward had told Harold to go to Norman and announce to Duke William that the childless Edward wish William to succeed him as king of England. Harold, however was not only the greatest noble on England but was also ambitious. It was not difficult for his followers to convince him not to reveal King Edward's will to Duke William, to bide his time, and - as soon as Edward was dead - to seize the royal treasury at Winchester and have himself crowned king.

There is nothing in the human figures or in the text to suggest that this was what was going on, but a small picture in the lower border clearly suggests that this was the case. The picture is that of an ungainly bird sitting in a tree under which an animal (a leopard judging by its spots) is lying. They are looking at each other with their mouths open, and there is some object in the air between them. It doesn't take a genius to recognize the scene.

 

The Fox and the Crow

A Fox once saw a Crow fly off with a piece of cheese in its beak and settle on a branch of a tree. "That's for me, as I am a Fox," said Master Reynard, and he walked up to the foot of the tree. "Good-day, Mistress Crow," he cried. "How well you are looking to-day: how glossy your feathers; how bright your eye. I feel sure your voice must surpass that of other birds, just as your figure does; let me hear but one song from you that I may greet you as the Queen of Birds." The Crow lifted up her head and began to caw her best, but the moment she opened her mouth the piece of cheese fell to the ground, only to be snapped up by Master Fox. "That will do," said he. "That was all I wanted. In exchange for your cheese I will give you a piece of advice for the future.

"Do not trust flatterers."

Although the tapestry portrays a leopard in place of a fox, the moral is the same and the reason for pointing to this particular fable at this particular place is quite clear. Harold's vanity would lead him to try to be what he was not and, as a consequence, to lose everything he held dear.

The Tapestry is most revealing in its details. One can see how a castle was built and discover that they were originally wooden stockades constructed on artificial mounds, trace the process of building warships from the felling of the trees to the launching of the vessels, view Edward, king of England, sitting in state at Westminster long before there was a Parliament sitting there, watch the death of a king and the coronation of a usurper, see a a bunch of soldiers pillaging the countryside, and many other things. Even better, many of the places pictured in the tapestry still exist and can be compared with their depiction in the Tapestry. A comparison of the the tapestry's depiction of the famous monastery of Mt.-St.-Michel with a modern photograph of the same place can be a great help in understanding how the designer of the tapestry pictured the world about him (or her). It would be well worth your time to study the scenes portrayed in the Bayeux Tapestry carefully. They offer a rare glimpse into the lives of both high and low in northwestern Europe in the middle of the eleventh century.

There is a great deal of material on the web about the tapestry and the events it portrays. Perhaps the best coverage is provided by the Introduction to the Battle-1066 site



ProfDallas said:
madskillz said:
The main problem I have with Blu Ray is the price. It's like the PS3 - I don't have a prob with it at all - except for the high price tag. For me, it's all about value. And there are tons of movies on BR I would love to have, but the price of admission isn't where I want it to be. If they were the same, I would buy both ...

Ok! It sounds like you're a bit of a movie fan and like some of the BD movies as well but the price of the player is scaring you away. I was actually hoping that you or twesterm or one of the other big HDDVD people would check out this thread.

And price is really the point of my thread but i'm not going to get to the punch line yet. But what if BD players were only $100 and HD-DVD players say $50? Would the lower price points get you to switch?


I knew you were Dallas, I just assumed you'd been banned for behavior, which I couldn't understand. I'm glad I was wrong.

My answer to the question at hand, even though I'm not an HD-DVD owner either: I'd buy the Blu Ray, no question. If I'm not mistaken, the question here is really: would you buy the technologically superior product if price were of little to no consequence? I think the answer is clearly yes. THe only possible objection one could have is available film library, but unless you absolutely love Transformers so much that you can't possibly give it up, I think most will agree that Blu Ray has at least an equal if not better library currently when compared to HD DVD. 



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

@Bodhesatva:

If you're talking about raw technology based on basic specifications, then yes, Blu-ray is superior. If you're talking about movie releases however, which are the most important distinction between the formats in financial terms, the difference becomes more cloudy. There are many more factors to consider when you look at the way the formats are used for movies, as well as the manufacturing cost and capability for each. As has been shown by format wars past, the best base technology does not always ensure victory.



Hates Nomura.

Tagged: GooseGaws - <--- Has better taste in games than you.

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At $100 or less, I would get both. Even if they were both $100, I would get both... The problem with your question is that you are trying to discount price as a motive at all levels. It is a motive when prices are high but it isn't when they are low... Then content takes over...

Dreamworks and Pixar (Disney) are the two studios I'd be most interested in so I'd want both.



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

I would stick with HD DVD. Bluray and HD DVD have the exact same image and everything, they both play the same high definition! I prefer HD DVDs selection of movies and I don't support Sony's liking for randomly making formats to try and divert people away from the standard.



PC Gamer

Untill one kills the other I'm sticking with upscale players and cheaper by the disc DVD's. =P



I am with Brainbox - upscaling is fine.

I am not convinced either format is going to "win" - meaning replace DVD's. I think it is quite possibel the consumers may be much slower to adopt a new disc format and could easily go with other HD sources including online distribution. If the consumer does not adopt a format in the next few years we could easily see some other HD content distribution/format making both HD DVD and Blu Ray just a footnote alongside Betamax.



ioi - "I have always endorsed NPD and have always conceded that their figures are obviously far more accurate than ours ..." - Posted on: 06/14/07, 22:22

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=355

GooseGaws said:
@FOOD88:

Your argument is flawed in that neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray really have any appeal to "common folk" and are both still firmly entrenched in "niche" territory. The average person probably has no idea that certain movies come out on one format and not the other, and further probably doesn't care because they don't have an HDTV anyway. The only factor that would appeal to this level of consumer right now is price, and that is where HD-DVD has its greatest advantage in terms of public appearance.

Also, you're missing the point of the ethernet port. It allows studios to implement internet-specific features into their releases, and can also provide access to new revenue streams through downloadable content and online stores. This adds to the potential for studios in the area most important to them: gross margin return on investment. If it becomes clear that they are certain to make more profit on HD-DVD, you can be sure that they will start to support it.

 No, your rebuttal is flawed. What hard facts do you base your claims of blu-ray not appealing to commong folk? I know first hand of a few people who have blu-ray players and never even touch sites like these or IGN and other tech sites. I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that there are more people like them out there who are buying blu-ray players or PS3s. And though price does play a factor for the rush towards Joe Blows there is also the importance of what the Joes' tastes are. I'm sure movies like Casino Royale and 300 with the words "BLU-RAY" being flashed accross them may have some influence as when it happened to me Sunday while I was in the movie theaters allong side with real Joe Blows. I understand HD-DVD has some movies I'm hurting for allong with Blu-Ray supporters, more specificaly the Bourne movies and Transformers, but it's almost seamingly insignificant compared to the hordes of great titles the Blu-Ray library has. 

 

Yes, the ethernet port, as I've heard, does serve a purpose other than firmware updates, but really, once you buy the movie why would you be willing to spend more? I'm sure Blu-Ray is going to be doing that with 300 or something, I'm not sure. Either way, I'm on the side of the consumer, so what bennefits the consumer most is what I'm going for.  Blu-Ray's implementation with Dell (may even be with iMacs too? correct me if I'm wrong) products and such, and stronger sudio support only adds to the appeal.