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Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 14 - Game Thread

SciFiBoy said:
theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:

1. either you should modkill all inactive players or you should replace them all, thats the only way to remain consistent. picking who you do or dont modkill/replace makes it look like youre trying to compensate for not making the game balanced in the first place (which is bad) or you just dont care/want a certain team to win (again, bad), at least if you always take the same action, no-one is gonna complain.

2. HE WAS DEAD, HE HAD ALREADY LOST...HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU GET KILLED, YOU ARE DEAD, GONE, YOU HAVE LOST, YOU CANNOT REJOIN THE GAME UNLESS YOUR ROLE SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS IT.

3. well duh, that is you know, why people SHOULD complain, it helps the mod learn how to make games better in future...

He didn't pick.  The players picked themselves.

He was pro-town both times.  When the town wins, so do ALL pro-town.  Even the dead ones.  He never lost.

Yes, and I have complained about that.  And in case I haven't said this yet, both mafia families should have been the same size too.

1. ...so they modkilled and replaced themselves using magic???

2. he got killed...so did most players...only no-one else went back into the game...you know why? because we died. he should wait to the next round like we all did, im merely asking that the game is FAIR.

No, they asked the mod.

So you would rather the game be more fair to the dead rather than the living?



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theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:
theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:

1. either you should modkill all inactive players or you should replace them all, thats the only way to remain consistent. picking who you do or dont modkill/replace makes it look like youre trying to compensate for not making the game balanced in the first place (which is bad) or you just dont care/want a certain team to win (again, bad), at least if you always take the same action, no-one is gonna complain.

2. HE WAS DEAD, HE HAD ALREADY LOST...HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU GET KILLED, YOU ARE DEAD, GONE, YOU HAVE LOST, YOU CANNOT REJOIN THE GAME UNLESS YOUR ROLE SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS IT.

3. well duh, that is you know, why people SHOULD complain, it helps the mod learn how to make games better in future...

He didn't pick.  The players picked themselves.

He was pro-town both times.  When the town wins, so do ALL pro-town.  Even the dead ones.  He never lost.

Yes, and I have complained about that.  And in case I haven't said this yet, both mafia families should have been the same size too.

1. ...so they modkilled and replaced themselves using magic???

2. he got killed...so did most players...only no-one else went back into the game...you know why? because we died. he should wait to the next round like we all did, im merely asking that the game is FAIR.

No, they asked the mod.

So you would rather the game be more fair to the dead rather than the living?


then the mod should have said "in the interest of fairness, I will modkill any players that say they cant play anymore" replacing anyone makes the game unfair (or in this case, more unfair.)

what is so hard to understand, THE GAME SHOULD BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE, LIVING OR DEAD.





theRepublic said:

That is not even close to what I was saying.  Nice strawman.

What I said was the game was initially unbalanced.  It became balanced with all the inactive mafia asking to be modkilled.

Well that's what it looked like by reading your posts, but anyway, that's wrong to because it changed from 1:2 in favor of the mafia to 1:4 in favor of the townies, which made it worse because not only did the townies have numerical advantage, but also they had way more power roles.

 

theRepublic said:

1- He didn't pick.  The players picked themselves.

2- He was pro-town both times.  When the town wins, so do ALL pro-town.  Even the dead ones.  He never lost.

3- Yes, and I have complained about that.  And in case I haven't said this yet, both mafia families should have been the same size too.

1- While this could be a "good" reason, It's just bad for balance's sake. Are you saying that there 2 players that aren't contributing to the game and 1 tells the mod and the other don't, the one that told the mod should be modkilled but the other shouldn't? Even if that's the thing, I'm gonna repeat, Lestatdark and dtewi both told the mod that they couldn't participate in the thread, one got modkilled and the other got a replacement, How's that fair?

2- We never said he lost, we said he was out of the game, and picking him because he posted "I'd glady come back!" It's unfair to the other dead players.

3- There were plenty of details like this and if we are saying them are because we want the game to get better, not we are butthurted.

 

Final-Fan said:

Now: dsister did not resurrect. He substituted for dtewi in a way that had nothing to do with his previous role in the game. The effect was exactly the same as if he had merely been an interested observer instead of a player for the earlier part of the game. i.e. the fact that he was a former player and had not merely been an interested observer FORMERLY was irrelevant to the integrity of the game.

If you're just upset that he happened to be the lucky one to get to sub in for dtewi and therefore play more than other people whose characters died, then I have to say you're just going to have to deal with the fact that not all people can have that opportunity.

If it's some other reason, I just don't see your rationale here. All I can think of is you're having trouble separating dsister's character (which died AND DID NOT COME BACK) from dsister the person who had that character and later substituted for dtewi in the UNRELATED character of the town's Cop.

Once again, you are missing the point, we are not complaining because dsister had lost and then was resurrected to win, we are not complaining because dsister had a role and that made him find something and made him replace dtewi unfair, we are complaining because a dead player, (unless it does have a important role) doesn't matter who, came back to replace another player (in an already unfair situation) just because he posted in the thread "Hey I can comeback!", that isn't fair to the rest of the dead players, I'm sure all of them would've glady came back.

We're not blaming anyone, we're not saying anyone sucks, we're not taking this personal, we're just pointing out flaws in the game that must be solved so other players aren't victims of the flaws, which will make a better mafia game for everybody. Stop looking at the comments so specifically and look at it in a general way.

 

 

 



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SciFiBoy said:
theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:

1. ...so they modkilled and replaced themselves using magic???

2. he got killed...so did most players...only no-one else went back into the game...you know why? because we died. he should wait to the next round like we all did, im merely asking that the game is FAIR.

No, they asked the mod.

So you would rather the game be more fair to the dead rather than the living?


then the mod should have said "in the interest of fairness, I will modkill any players that say they cant play anymore" replacing anyone makes the game unfair (or in this case, more unfair.)

what is so hard to understand, THE GAME SHOULD BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE, LIVING OR DEAD.

How do you propose to be fair to everyone?  Either you are fair to the dead, and the game is destroyed, or you are fair to the living, and the game can go on.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
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Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

SciFiBoy said:


Ive been saying the same thing all along, if you die in a game, you cant play again till the next round, thats the rules EVERYONE ELSE played to, without fail, including me and you.

Please show me where that rule is




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theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:
theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:

1. ...so they modkilled and replaced themselves using magic???

2. he got killed...so did most players...only no-one else went back into the game...you know why? because we died. he should wait to the next round like we all did, im merely asking that the game is FAIR.

No, they asked the mod.

So you would rather the game be more fair to the dead rather than the living?


then the mod should have said "in the interest of fairness, I will modkill any players that say they cant play anymore" replacing anyone makes the game unfair (or in this case, more unfair.)

what is so hard to understand, THE GAME SHOULD BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE, LIVING OR DEAD.

How do you propose to be fair to everyone?  Either you are fair to the dead, and the game is destroyed, or you are fair to the living, and the game can go on.

you make the game fair by making the teams as balanced as you can and by taking the same action to deal with all inactive players, if you do that everyone knows what they are signing up for and the game is largely fair. (this game is exceptional in terms of modkills, largely as it went on so long and had so many players, you can address that by setting more deadlines and having a smaller game(s) in future)

if you make the teams unbalanced, the game is unfair.

if you deal with different inactive players differently, then you unbalance the game, again resulting in it being unfair.

if you replace people, it tends to unbalance the game also, unless you replace everyone, and always with players who werent already in the game to make it fair.

if you replace people with people who already got knocked out of that game, it tends to unbalance the game AND be completley unfair to the other players.




zexen_lowe said:
SciFiBoy said:


Ive been saying the same thing all along, if you die in a game, you cant play again till the next round, thats the rules EVERYONE ELSE played to, without fail, including me and you.

Please show me where that rule is

Oh God, come on, you get the point, if you are dead you will stay dead unless there a special case, it doesn't really need to be in the rules, it's how every game works unless it's marked the other way.



||Tag courtesy of fkusumot - "Heaven is like a Nintendo theme park!"||Join the Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 American League HERE!||

Falcon095 said:
theRepublic said:

1- He didn't pick.  The players picked themselves.

2- He was pro-town both times.  When the town wins, so do ALL pro-town.  Even the dead ones.  He never lost.

3- Yes, and I have complained about that.  And in case I haven't said this yet, both mafia families should have been the same size too.

1- While this could be a "good" reason, It's just bad for balance's sake. Are you saying that there 2 players that aren't contributing to the game and 1 tells the mod and the other don't, the one that told the mod should be modkilled but the other shouldn't? Even if that's the thing, I'm gonna repeat, Lestatdark and dtewi both told the mod that they couldn't participate in the thread, one got modkilled and the other got a replacement, How's that fair?

2- We never said he lost, we said he was out of the game, and picking him because he posted "I'd glady come back!" It's unfair to the other dead players.

He also killed the players who failed to respond to PMs.  It is fair to the game.  It is fair to the living players.  Also, we need to remember that all the modkills were of players of unknown roles.  Most the town had no clue if someone was going to turn up scum, or townie, or town power role when they were modkilled.  Dtewi's role was already known to everyone.  Kill him and the game is royally screwed.  What makes you think that pro-town players would even continue to play at that point?

SciFiBoy did say he lost.

Once again, you are missing the point, we are not complaining because dsister had lost and then was resurrected to win, we are not complaining because dsister had a role and that made him find something and made him replace dtewi unfair, we are complaining because a dead player, (unless it does have a important role) doesn't matter who, came back to replace another player (in an already unfair situation) just because he posted in the thread "Hey I can comeback!", that isn't fair to the rest of the dead players, I'm sure all of them would've glady came back.
I know this is not directed at me, but I am going to respond anyway.  How do you propose to be fair to everyone in this specific case?  Either you are fair to the dead, and the game is destroyed, or you are fair to the living, and the game can go on.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
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Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
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Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

zexen_lowe said:
SciFiBoy said:


Ive been saying the same thing all along, if you die in a game, you cant play again till the next round, thats the rules EVERYONE ELSE played to, without fail, including me and you.

Please show me where that rule is

from role-pm's:

"You don't want to be lynched because you can't win if you're dead (though your team can...)."

read the bolded.

you cant win if youre dead, meaning you personally cannot still be in the game and "win" by surviving all game (as dsister did)

your team, can win, thats fine, im not arguing against that.

also, its called DEATH, not GHOST (replace an inactive player at any time) - 2 very different things...im sure you agree?


or, are you saying that people should be able to re-enter the game?

how is that fair? unless EVERYONE gets that oppurtunity, then its incredibly unfair.



SciFiBoy said:
theRepublic said:
SciFiBoy said:

then the mod should have said "in the interest of fairness, I will modkill any players that say they cant play anymore" replacing anyone makes the game unfair (or in this case, more unfair.)

what is so hard to understand, THE GAME SHOULD BE FAIR FOR EVERYONE, LIVING OR DEAD.

How do you propose to be fair to everyone?  Either you are fair to the dead, and the game is destroyed, or you are fair to the living, and the game can go on.

you make the game fair by making the teams as balanced as you can and by taking the same action to deal with all inactive players, if you do that everyone knows what they are signing up for and the game is largely fair. (this game is exceptional in terms of modkills, largely as it went on so long and had so many players, you can address that by setting more deadlines and having a smaller game(s) in future)

if you make the teams unbalanced, the game is unfair.

if you deal with different inactive players differently, then you unbalance the game, again resulting in it being unfair.

if you replace people, it tends to unbalance the game also, unless you replace everyone, and always with players who werent already in the game to make it fair.

if you replace people with people who already got knocked out of that game, it tends to unbalance the game AND be completley unfair to the other players.

I'm not talking in general.  I'm talking about this specific case.  Are you telling me that if you were mod, you would have had no problems with destroying the game in fairness to the dead?



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)