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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Future: Japanese development isn't dying

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Just take one of these (the picture above) and you'll feel better in the morning! Just kidding, its going to take a lot more than a boy and his gryphon-bird ... thing to save us from a future bereft of katamari's, improbably sized bi-pedal tanks, and penguins with a propensity to saying "dood". All in good time though; before I begin my main post I would just like to say... 

Hello Destructoid! I've been following the community (HAWP, RevRant, various blogs, etc.) for some time now without feeling the need to make an account. Really had nothing to say about videogames that I couldn't discuss with my circle of real life friends, but after discussing this at length with a friend I felt the need to blog and blog I shall. Me and my friend are of one mind on this subject -- it ain't what it used to be.

If I were to stack my catalogue in chronological order it would look something like this: 1992-1996 -- An assortment of turn based strategy games, simulators and the PC port of Virtua Fighter (don't ask.) 1996-2006 -- JRPG's by the hundreds, Shadow of the Colossus, and JP action games such as Zone of the Enders. 2006-2010 -- PS3 exclusives developed in-house by Sony, Modern Warfare, Assassin's Creed, andDead Space. That rise and fall from 2006 to now really depresses me.

FEAR NOT THOUGH! There is a light at the end of the tunnel for crazy Nippon. In any case, with my introduction done let me just clarify a few things before I begin. 

1) When I'm talking about Japanese Game Development I am referring exclusively to HD console development (PS3/360).

The Wii/DS/PSP JP development process is much like that of the previous generation so it never had to evolve in order to survive. Games like No More Heroes, Phoenix Wright, etc. exist soley because of the low cost environment of these platforms. (NMH wouldn't be coming to any console if it weren't for the Wii's specs being mailed in from 2001) 

2) Square-Enix's FFXIII will not help in the recovery. 

Everything I've seen from the latest and greatest from SE has slowly whittled my hype level down inch by inch. Culminating in the latest International trailer featuring Leona Lewis's "My Hands" and such gripping dialogue as "So do you believe in Lady Luck now!?, YEAH! LADY BAD LUCK", with not a hint of self-humor. FFXIII just seems to me to be the poster-child of bad JP tropes (Horrible localization being the biggest offender) and does not deserve to be the standard bearer of any resurgence from Japanese studios onto the worldwide stage.

In fact I believe Square-Enix as it currently exists is part of the problem, not the solution. I say this because 95% of what this company has done in the past decade has either left me seething with nerd rage (FFX-2, Star Ocean 4, anything tri-Ace has done while working with them) or left me feeling sad and empty. (Kingdom Hearts)

3) I have no bias against Western developed games.

Quite the contrary my first experiences with gaming are firmly rooted on the PC. Civilization, Master of Orion, and Dungeon Keeper encompass the high points of my childhood gaming. Despite my upbringing though JRPG's and Japanese experimental games filled my teenage and early adult life. Where Civilizationis the greatest game of my childhood, Xenogears is the greatest game of my teenage years. For me its the highpoint of storytelling in JRPGs, it demonstrates in excess some of the key strengths of Japanese focused games. (Rather funny considering my ire for the company who own the rights and if they chose to could make a sequel ... which until they actually prove they don't suck anymore I don't want.) 

Yeah, I know I'm being hard on them. I feel its completely justified though. 1/2 this company during the 90's brought Japanese RPGs and by extension the entire Japanese development complex into a golden age of creativity and optimism. Seeing as how doom and gloom parades over pretty much every studio from that neck of the woods now, with that in mind I can't not point the finger and lay blame. 

But yeah, its not that I want Japanese developers to completely monopolize the consoles like they did in years past, what I want is equality. 50% West 50% East. My ideal end game is that balance. I would hate to see the opposite of the situation happen 10-15 years from now. I have too much respect for studios like Naughty Dog, Gearbox and Bioware to bear seeing that. 

Okay, enough rambling on, Japanese development is in trouble. The people need a hero to look up to and lead the way to the glorious future where the penis chariots are made of solid gold. Yes, I'm talking about the people who made a provocative form of suicide in real life not only look cool, but it remained cool for a game that spanned 100 hours or more. (A lot more if you bought the expansion)

If there ever was a company that just got what people are looking for in games from our favourite bow-shaped island, it's these guys. It is only fitting then that they lead the resurgence of these types of games onto the Sony and Microsoft behemoths. They have the support base comprised of their rabid fandom, a stable of wonderful projects and imaginative people who are not afraid to break genre conventions and strike out in their own direction and possibly the most important aspect of Atlus is their attention to the rabid community they have spawned. Such devotion ensures that any HD project they are involved in gets instant buzz and the fanbase serves to only increase that buzz through word of mouth.

One only has to look at the Persona series, their quasi-flagship brand of the latter half of the decade to realize what these components merged together are capable of. Persona 3 and 4 have become media darlings, Persona 3 Gamespot's RPG GOTY 2008, and Giantbomb's Persona 4 Endurance Run, and both have gone on to sell a respectable amount of copies worldwide. If VGChartz is to be believedPersona 4has sold in excess of 600,000 copies.

If they can keep up that sort of momentum and really revolutionize with the inevitable Persona 5, the series could finally break into territory that belongs to the likes of Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter. I know it sounds crazy, but I feel that if Persona 5 much like a certain From Software hit gets the right release window, attention it will explode the franchise. 

With that strong in-house development, their corporate culture and the Atlus faithful they are in a position to best take advantage of the situation. Already they have leveraged their expertise to making a "niche" title a semi-blockbuster. I am of course referring to the one and only Demon's SoulsDemon's Souls is special, everyone knows this. Its a last stand for not coddling gamers, but actually challenging them to become better players. This is not why Demon's Souls is so important though. Demon's Souls is important because it is a JRPG that has transcended the genre. The trappings and tropes that are somewhat comforting to veterans of the style are nowhere to be seen. All that is left standing between you and fun is yourself (And hordes of demons). This is why Demon's Souls is a success. This is where Japanese development needs to go in order to make its grand comeback. I don't mean all Japanese games should be dark and gloomy, I mean they should break away from genre conventions and create their own conventions then perfect them. One only has to look at the quality difference between Demon's Souls and Ninja Blade to understand how important this concept is.

That said, I think if From Software moves away from their dried up cash cow (Armored Core) and embraces their part in the relationship that seems to be growing between Sony, Atlus and them the opportunities for all will be staggering. The combined financial and technical expertise of Sony/From Software and the localization and creativity powerhouse that is Atlus will begin the restoration. If 3D Dot Game Heroesbecomes a success much like Demon's Souls, it will be another solid step to that recovery. May it take a year, two or five Japan will make its return to grace. Baby steps people.

P.S. Didn't realize that there was a monthly musing that happens to coincide with my topic. Honest!

 

nice story i found on destructoid (one of my favorite sites for gaming and stuff :D) another thing i liked about it is that they referred to VGchartz.com!!! lol <3 



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lol, From Software? Uh, something tells me they won;t be leading the recovery... especially since all their games this gen besides Demon's Souls, Chromehounds and AC4 bombed. Including 3D Dot Game Heroes and Ninja Blade.



Nice read, this guy is pretty funny and has a couple valid points as to why Japanese development looks like it may have a bright future.

Persona 5 will be revolutionary!!!!!



Odd. Future. Wolf. Gang. Kill. Em. All. OFWGKTA Don't give a fuck!

Fuck Steve Harvey. FREE EARL!

Final Fantasy Versus XIII will be the GREATEST game EVER made!!!

I'd take a bullet for Square-Enix! 

 

It's going to take a lot more than a couple moderately successful games.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.

I didn't bother to read the original article because the writing is terrible but I'm going to comment on the thread's topic. I'm not so sure that Japanese game development has a rosy future. I think it will face the same problems that the Japanese film industry faces compared to its U.S. counterpart.

It will eventually get to the point where the price of making major games will be beyond what most Japanese developers will be able to afford (it has already started with the HD generation). As video games become even more mainstream and video games evolve (the immersive experience will be well beyond what we have today) it will require budgets that dwarf anything we have now.

I also think the areas of Japanese game development that will be decimated by this will involve games that rely heavily on Japan for sales (JRPGs for example) or play primarily to Japanese pop culture. It doesn't help that Japan's population growth is basically at a standstill which will make the problem even worse.

Some will point to Nintendo and say that a Wii like philosophy will save Japanese game development but I doubt that. Even cheaper experiences eventually will become very expensive in comparison to what we have today and all it will take is Nintendo slipping for even a generation to spell major trouble for Japanese developers relying on this strategy.

Please note that I'm not saying that Japanese game development is completely doomed but that it will become to video games what Japanese movies are to the World. It will still be relevant in Japan but not so much on the World stage.



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I would hate for the games development to be split 50:50 between west and east. Its a whole lot of east compared to very little of the west, relative to the size of population. Luckily its moving towards 80:20 west:east which is about right for the overall gaming population size.



Do you know what its like to live on the far side of Uranus?

Really? He dismissed handhelds and the Wii?

 

Yeah...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Legend11 said:
I didn't bother to read the original article because the writing is terrible but I'm going to comment on the thread's topic. I'm not so sure that Japanese game development has a rosy future. I think it will face the same problems that the Japanese film industry faces compared to its U.S. counterpart.

It will eventually get to the point where the price of making major games will be beyond what most Japanese developers will be able to afford (it has already started with the HD generation). As video games become even more mainstream and video games evolve (the immersive experience will be well beyond what we have today) it will require budgets that dwarf anything we have now.

I also think the areas of Japanese game development that will be decimated by this will involve games that rely heavily on Japan for sales (JRPGs for example) or play primarily to Japanese pop culture. It doesn't help that Japan's population growth is basically at a standstill which will make the problem even worse.

Some will point to Nintendo and say that a Wii like philosophy will save Japanese game development but I doubt that. Even cheaper experiences eventually will become very expensive in comparison to what we have today and all it will take is Nintendo slipping for even a generation to spell major trouble for Japanese developers relying on this strategy.

Please note that I'm not saying that Japanese game development is completely doomed but that it will become to video games what Japanese movies are to the World. It will still be relevant in Japan but not so much on the World stage.

How is the west exempt from this? It's not as if they're doing great this gen, in fact, they're doing worse than current Japanese companies, especially when you have Nintendo in the mix. It seems like you feel the future is in massive games like GTA4, Modern Warfare 2, and other high budget stuff that the Japanese can't directly compete with. Except, Nintendo has proven that they can. Visuals are no longer as important as they were once considered, the Wii has proven this. I see no reason why "even cheaper experiences" would rise to such huge costs. Take another look at Nintendo's best selling titles, between the DS and Wii.

Why do you say Nintendo "slipping" for a gen spells doom? They have a ton of money they have at their disposal, and even without it, I have a hard time seeing a day when they are not relevant. Even at their worst, they dominated the handheld market, and at their best, they dominate everything. They've been the main source of innovation on the hardware for a long time, and we have yet to see any western companies to step up to the plate.

I can't see them not being a major power for at least another 10 years. Anytime after this mark is too far beyond for us to know where gaming will even look like.

 

OT: Not a single mention of Nintendo. Well, he did mention he thinks they suck.

Now, I'm not saying everyone must love Nintendo, but how can you just ignore the beast when talking about Japanese development not dying? It makes zero sense how he just zeroes in on HD development, as if the success of the Wii isn't the one pointing in the right direction (hint, not every game needs tons of money put into stellar graphics).

Then he goes on to put hopes down on a knock-off of Zelda, of all things. Really? The reason he excludes the Wii is because they're last gen games, while this one is a next-gen title that wouldn't exist without the HD consoles?

It's nonsense.

Also, OP. You didn't put a link to the article, you should put one up at the beginning or end, at least.
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Mitsugeta/the-future-japanese-development-isn-t-dying-its-sick-there-is-a-cure--160741.phtml 



So he's trying to critiqué Japanese developement, while ignoring the 3 best selling current gen consoles in Japan? :/.



c0rd said:
Legend11 said:
I didn't bother to read the original article because the writing is terrible but I'm going to comment on the thread's topic. I'm not so sure that Japanese game development has a rosy future. I think it will face the same problems that the Japanese film industry faces compared to its U.S. counterpart.

It will eventually get to the point where the price of making major games will be beyond what most Japanese developers will be able to afford (it has already started with the HD generation). As video games become even more mainstream and video games evolve (the immersive experience will be well beyond what we have today) it will require budgets that dwarf anything we have now.

I also think the areas of Japanese game development that will be decimated by this will involve games that rely heavily on Japan for sales (JRPGs for example) or play primarily to Japanese pop culture. It doesn't help that Japan's population growth is basically at a standstill which will make the problem even worse.

Some will point to Nintendo and say that a Wii like philosophy will save Japanese game development but I doubt that. Even cheaper experiences eventually will become very expensive in comparison to what we have today and all it will take is Nintendo slipping for even a generation to spell major trouble for Japanese developers relying on this strategy.

Please note that I'm not saying that Japanese game development is completely doomed but that it will become to video games what Japanese movies are to the World. It will still be relevant in Japan but not so much on the World stage.

How is the west exempt from this? It's not as if they're doing great this gen, in fact, they're doing worse than current Japanese companies, especially when you have Nintendo in the mix. It seems like you feel the future is in massive games like GTA4, Modern Warfare 2, and other high budget stuff that the Japanese can't directly compete with. Except, Nintendo has proven that they can. Visuals are no longer as important as they were once considered, the Wii has proven this. I see no reason why "even cheaper experiences" would rise to such huge costs. Take another look at Nintendo's best selling titles, between the DS and Wii.

Why do you say Nintendo "slipping" for a gen spells doom? They have a ton of money they have at their disposal, and even without it, I have a hard time seeing a day when they are not relevant. Even at their worst, they dominated the handheld market, and at their best, they dominate everything. They've been the main source of innovation on the hardware for a long time, and we have yet to see any western companies to step up to the plate.

I can't see them not being a major power for at least another 10 years. Anytime after this mark is too far beyond for us to know where gaming will even look like.

 

OT: Not a single mention of Nintendo. Well, he did mention he thinks they suck.

Now, I'm not saying everyone must love Nintendo, but how can you just ignore the beast when talking about Japanese development not dying? It makes zero sense how he just zeroes in on HD development, as if the success of the Wii isn't the one pointing in the right direction (hint, not every game needs tons of money put into stellar graphics).

Then he goes on to put hopes down on a knock-off of Zelda, of all things. Really? The reason he excludes the Wii is because they're last gen games, while this one is a next-gen title that wouldn't exist without the HD consoles?

It's nonsense.

Also, OP. You didn't put a link to the article, you should put one up at the beginning or end, at least.
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Mitsugeta/the-future-japanese-development-isn-t-dying-its-sick-there-is-a-cure--160741.phtml 


Ever heard of ROK Pictures?  They were one of the big 5 studios during the Golden Age of Hollywood.  It's not unheard of for companies that were major players or even dominated in their respective industries to lose their place because of changes in it.

I can name "beasts" as you call them in many different industries that are now either long gone or nothing like their former selves.  I'm not talking about next generation, I'm talking about generations from now where things will be much different than they are now.