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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pachter's third party question to the hard core gets the usual responses

jarrod on 28 January 2010
txrattlesnake said:

     It doesn't have anything to do with their games as their games have received some of the best reviews of any publisher's on Wii.  And that is just the thing, with the lack of the big third party games on Wii like GTA, etc, then the audience of 60 million Wii owners should be picking up the games from a publisher like Marvelous as they have had less competition against their games as on the Wii than PS2, for example, where their games would have been pitted against more established franchises in similar genres, thus cutting into their sales, but they haven't found better success with the relative lack of competition. 

They had less competition on PS2, they weren't up against Nintendo.  And yet stuff like Chulip, Shining Dragon and Innocent Life still bombed. ;)

 



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LordTheNightKnight on 28 January 2010

"Wii the BEST selling console this gen and the FASTEST selling console ever and gets the worst games ever!"

Some obscure (for a reason) consoles would beg to differ.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

damkira on 28 January 2010

Troll posts troll thread.

Story at 11.

 



txrattlesnake on 28 January 2010


jarrod on 28 January 2010
txrattlesnake said:
Veder Juda said:
txrattlesnake said:

 

     It doesn't have anything to do with their games as their games have received some of the best reviews of any publisher's on Wii.  And that is just the thing, with the lack of the big third party games on Wii like GTA, etc, then the audience of 60 million Wii owners should be picking up the games from a publisher like Marvelous as they have had less competition against their games as on the Wii than PS2, for example, where their games would have been pitted against more established franchises in similar genres, thus cutting into their sales, but they haven't found better success with the relative lack of competition. 

 

Niche is niche.

If Marvelous games didn't sell well because they were weird, then any new audience might see them just as weird as the core gamers do.

If Marvelous games didn't sell well because of competition with bigger, better games, then they are still competing against those games, even if they are on another platform; the gamers who prefer those games would just buy the console that has those games, and continue to ignore Marvelous.

 

Well, what I heard from Wii fans in the early days was that Nintendo would take these expanded market gamers and make them interested in the core games.  NMH2 received good reviews from several sites, so if it's not selling it has more to with the failure to convert expanded market types into core gamers than either the quality of the game or its being a niche game imho.

Why should the expanded market be interested in NMH2?  They don't even know about it and it's published by the biggest shovelware company on Wii?



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Demotruk on 28 January 2010
txrattlesnake said:

Well, what I heard from Wii fans in the early days was that Nintendo would take these expanded market gamers and make them interested in the core games.  NMH2 received good reviews from several sites, so if it's not selling it has more to with the failure to convert expanded market types into core gamers than either the quality of the game or its being a niche game imho.

It's possible you misunderstood what was said. The expanded audience will move upstream and play/buy games that are more 'sophisticated' than Wii Sports; Mario Kart Wii and NSMB are examples of this. They're not going to suddenly start playing the same games that would have been made for the GC unless those games adopt the expanded audience's values.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

txrattlesnake on 28 January 2010


sirroman on 28 January 2010
Seferoth75 said:
I see a lot of people trying to argue points they know little about.

First off Sand box games are not niche titles. 4 play zombie killing FPS are not niche titles. A guy who buys a lightsaber online and goes around cutting people in half and screaming "Strawberry on the shortcake" to 80's arcade sounds is Niche.

However that niche failure NMH sold 470k. Dragon age Origins, Bioshock, Borderlands all sold around the same on Ps3. Those were mainstream titles.

Also the original poster seems to confuse mainstream games like COD with multi million dollar budgets as some how "hardcore" They are not. He cannot show any Rail shooter or other niche title that is failing that got the same type of marketing budget as MW. Now if all Hardcore gamers just happen to know COD existed there would be no need for those huge ad campaigns. They are there though so that clearly proves him wrong about all gamers know what the good games are.


He seems to want to act like 2 year old ports and rail shooters should be selling billions on Wii. Where is the proof of this though? Just because its hardcore doesnt make it good. I didnt like Madworld and got bored before I ever beat it. I feel bad for having supported it at all.


If we took the games on PS3 that failed to sale a million what excuses would you offer? You don't think there is a valid reason for a 4 hour black and white button smasher with no replay value to fail so how do you feel about Borderlands, Have, Lair, Dragon Age, Bioshock, and so many other good games bombing on PS3?

It's funny though to see people pulling up Madworld. Like that is all they really have. I remember Overkill being called a bomb but nobody brings it up after Sega said it was a success. De Blob was a huge failure til the developer said it was almost at a million. Trolls and fanboys will being up every single Wii game and call it a failure. Most of them are not.

With 140million consoles God of War 2 only sold 2 million. Okami didnt even hit 500k,Nobody bought God hand either or Killer 7. Suda had to move to the Wii to get his first successful game and the only one so far to get a sequel. Silent Hill for Wii had a bigger opening than Silent Hill PS3. I brought up the 140 million PS2 so nobody could try to argue install base. To me thats just an argument for people who know little to nothing about gaming.
If you want to know what sales on Wii, it's quality. Just look at the metacritic for NSMBWii VS sales and do the same for those games you want to pretend are AAA must own.

All I can do is applaud.  Nothing to add.



"How hard would it be to randomize facial features and skin tones? That's what we want, to feel like we're killing hundreds of different people. Not a bunch of clones or twins. We want to know, deep down, that there are hundreds of grieving mothers out there, lamenting the terror of our dreaded blade."

Cracked.com ( http://www.cracked.com/article_16196_p4.html ), saying the Hardcore gamers' dark truth. And it's Hell True.

txrattlesnake on 28 January 2010


jarrod on 28 January 2010
txrattlesnake said:
jarrod said:
txrattlesnake said:
Veder Juda said:
txrattlesnake said:

 

     It doesn't have anything to do with their games as their games have received some of the best reviews of any publisher's on Wii.  And that is just the thing, with the lack of the big third party games on Wii like GTA, etc, then the audience of 60 million Wii owners should be picking up the games from a publisher like Marvelous as they have had less competition against their games as on the Wii than PS2, for example, where their games would have been pitted against more established franchises in similar genres, thus cutting into their sales, but they haven't found better success with the relative lack of competition. 

 

Niche is niche.

If Marvelous games didn't sell well because they were weird, then any new audience might see them just as weird as the core gamers do.

If Marvelous games didn't sell well because of competition with bigger, better games, then they are still competing against those games, even if they are on another platform; the gamers who prefer those games would just buy the console that has those games, and continue to ignore Marvelous.

 

Well, what I heard from Wii fans in the early days was that Nintendo would take these expanded market gamers and make them interested in the core games.  NMH2 received good reviews from several sites, so if it's not selling it has more to with the failure to convert expanded market types into core gamers than either the quality of the game or its being a niche game imho.

Why should the expanded market be interested in NMH2?  They don't even know about it and it's published by the biggest shovelware company on Wii?


     Because it's a better game than most of the games they own.  Because it's by the best game designer since Kojima was young.  Because it's Iwata's intention to make everybody he can into gamers.

But they don't know about it, it's not promoted to them and it's not featured on the outlets they use.  And if they happen to see it on the shelf, they'll see it's from Ubishit, the same company that's been hawking Petz/Babiez/Imagine/Rabbids shovelware on their system for years, and they'll probably pass it by.

It's not Iwata's job to sell them on NMH, it's Ubi's.  It may be a great game, but the expanded audience doesn't know that.  And them not knowing that isn't due to Nintendo...