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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is console gaming really doing that badly in Japan?

 

Is console gaming really doing that badly in Japan?

Yes, because I didn't re... 21 28.77%
 
Yes, because home consoles should do better 13 17.81%
 
No, because handhelds are consoles too 26 35.62%
 
No, historically there ha... 13 17.81%
 
Total:73
theprof00 said:
I don't understand your point.
Are you trying to say the the market didn't switch to handhelds?

Because it did. However, DS has been out a long time now, and it's moving back to a more balanced level, probably due to counter-current.

Handhelds plural would be very very wrong.

I said the market in Japan has one dominant console at a time, same thing happened with SNES vs Gen, PS2 vs GC vs GBA, the big difference is the handhelds always have just about if not more sales than home consoles, always has similar games, etc which means there isn't a big difference between the two like Americans make out there is, they've always been there, they've always sold well, there isn't a shift.  The point being this gen will be one of the most successful in Japan, because the newest moninating console is putting up PS1 software type sales, tracking higher than PS2 in hardware, but handhelds have always posted great numbers, it's basically like you can't act like "handhelds are now the popular thing" its just consoles are consoles there, PSP is not selling Wii levels of software is a prime example.



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MaxwellGT2000 said:
guiduc said:
You know, Japan is an incredible testing area for technology. The are further away advanced than us about technology. Japanese also love compact things, which explain the success of the DS and PSP system despite Wii and PS3 have pretty decent sales.

Handheld technology is Japanese's favorite.

And yet it doesn't sell software like other consoles :P like I said in the OP it goes DS>>>>>>>>>Wii>>PSP>PS3

New Super Mario Bros Wii sold more in Japan than in Others. Final Fantasy serie always manages to sell a lot more in Japan. Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter...



MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:
I don't understand your point.
Are you trying to say the the market didn't switch to handhelds?

Because it did. However, DS has been out a long time now, and it's moving back to a more balanced level, probably due to counter-current.

Handhelds plural would be very very wrong.

I said the market in Japan has one dominant console at a time, same thing happened with SNES vs Gen, PS2 vs GC vs GBA, the big difference is the handhelds always have just about if not more sales than home consoles, always has similar games, etc which means there isn't a big difference between the two like Americans make out there is, they've always been there, they've always sold well, there isn't a shift.  The point being this gen will be one of the most successful in Japan.

...so you're saying that it is still a one-console dominant market (a handheld) but that it doesn't count as the market having moved to "handheldS" because it is a singular handheld?

What I'm seeing here as counter-evidence is that, comparitively, the top 2 handhelds are both doing better than the top 2 home consoles. So technically, moving to "handheldS" is proven by your own example. However, if I take your idea that the PSP doesn't really stand out as a good example of a handheld, the DS is still better selling than any other handheld and it matches the ps1, just about, which is evidence that the market has moved to "handheld_", rather than "handhelds" (not really).

Lastly, if your point really is that it's not (plural) handhelds, you have to ask yourself what you interpreted the word as; my point being that media might have been using the word "handhelds" as simply a grouping, rather than a 1-to-1 representation.

Like, I could ask someone, "do you like handhelds or consoles better". In this sentence, I am using the word handhelds as a category rather than one specific handheld. If there were only one handheld console, you could still say "the market is moving to handhelds". I think you are taking too strict an interpretation of the word "handhelds".



theprof00 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:
I don't understand your point.
Are you trying to say the the market didn't switch to handhelds?

Because it did. However, DS has been out a long time now, and it's moving back to a more balanced level, probably due to counter-current.

Handhelds plural would be very very wrong.

I said the market in Japan has one dominant console at a time, same thing happened with SNES vs Gen, PS2 vs GC vs GBA, the big difference is the handhelds always have just about if not more sales than home consoles, always has similar games, etc which means there isn't a big difference between the two like Americans make out there is, they've always been there, they've always sold well, there isn't a shift.  The point being this gen will be one of the most successful in Japan.

...so you're saying that it is still a one-console dominant market (a handheld) but that it doesn't count as the market having moved to "handheldS" because it is a singular handheld?

What I'm seeing here as counter-evidence is that, comparitively, the top 2 handhelds are both doing better than the top 2 home consoles. So technically, moving to "handheldS" is proven by your own example. However, if I take your idea that the PSP doesn't really stand out as a good example of a handheld, the DS is still better selling than any other handheld and it matches the ps1, just about, which is evidence that the market has moved to "handheld_", rather than "handhelds" (not really).

Lastly, if your point really is that it's not (plural) handhelds, you have to ask yourself what you interpreted the word as; my point being that media might have been using the word "handhelds" as simply a grouping, rather than a 1-to-1 representation.

Like, I could ask someone, "do you like handhelds or consoles better". In this sentence, I am using the word handhelds as a category rather than one specific handheld. If there were only one handheld console, you could still say "the market is moving to handhelds". I think you are taking too strict an interpretation of the word "handhelds".

LOL I stopped reading at the highlight, WRONG.  PSP's only million sellers are Monster Hunter, Monster Hunter, and whats that? Another Monster Hunter, then only has nine games selling more than a half million, that hardly qualifies as co-dominance with DS, not by a long shot, actually read some of the data thrown into the OP...  *sigh*



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
theprof00 said:
I don't understand your point.
Are you trying to say the the market didn't switch to handhelds?

Because it did. However, DS has been out a long time now, and it's moving back to a more balanced level, probably due to counter-current.

Handhelds plural would be very very wrong.

I said the market in Japan has one dominant console at a time, same thing happened with SNES vs Gen, PS2 vs GC vs GBA, the big difference is the handhelds always have just about if not more sales than home consoles, always has similar games, etc which means there isn't a big difference between the two like Americans make out there is, they've always been there, they've always sold well, there isn't a shift.  The point being this gen will be one of the most successful in Japan.

...so you're saying that it is still a one-console dominant market (a handheld) but that it doesn't count as the market having moved to "handheldS" because it is a singular handheld?

What I'm seeing here as counter-evidence is that, comparitively, the top 2 handhelds are both doing better than the top 2 home consoles. So technically, moving to "handheldS" is proven by your own example. However, if I take your idea that the PSP doesn't really stand out as a good example of a handheld, the DS is still better selling than any other handheld and it matches the ps1, just about, which is evidence that the market has moved to "handheld_", rather than "handhelds" (not really).

Lastly, if your point really is that it's not (plural) handhelds, you have to ask yourself what you interpreted the word as; my point being that media might have been using the word "handhelds" as simply a grouping, rather than a 1-to-1 representation.

Like, I could ask someone, "do you like handhelds or consoles better". In this sentence, I am using the word handhelds as a category rather than one specific handheld. If there were only one handheld console, you could still say "the market is moving to handhelds". I think you are taking too strict an interpretation of the word "handhelds".

LOL I stopped reading at the highlight, WRONG.  PSP's only million sellers are Monster Hunter, Monster Hunter, and whats that? Another Monster Hunter, then only has nine games selling more than a half million, that hardly qualifies as co-dominance with DS, not by a long shot, actually read some of the data thrown into the OP...  *sigh*

and yet the number 2 handheld is doing better than the number 2 console... *sigh*

Additionally you didn't even read the rest of my post and "LOL'ed, said I was "WRONG" and "sigh"ed at me. I could be really negative and blast you for something like this, given your position.....but I'm not going to. Read my post. Not only are you wrong for your choice of interpretation, you are wrong in any interpretation.



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I think the japanese market of home consoles is weak (and tends to get weaker from now on) due to the way of life of the Japanese. Maybe my vision is way too stereotypic, but I've always been told they don't spend much time in their homes today, working almost all the time. The frenetic life of Japan makes impossible for people to take time, relax and enjoy a home console, so they choose the portable systems, which they can play anytime, anywhere. Besides, the game market in Japan has always been dominated by young people (I mean, ranging from 10 to 30 years old), and we know the population in there is getting old. Even though the Wii is directed more towards this part of the population, maybe it's not enough to convice the elders to play video games.

What else could affect the video game sales there?



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MaxwellGT2000 said:

Many places and sites state the Japanese gaming market has been hurting stating no single console has replaced the PS2.  The other general view is that handhelds (together) have shifted to the dominating the market in Japan, but this is just inaccurate.

Basically if you look at the overall top selling games in Japan (http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?sort=Japan">sales) the top 10 best selling games are dominated by handheld games, and a lot of the top 50 are handhelds as well, but it shows that one console usually dominates in market and sales, but that race is between all consoles in Japan its not so sectioned off like in America where they seem like two different markets.

What does this mean?  That it wasn't so much of a handheld shift as they've always been there, it does go up and down like any market, as seen with the GBA (sales) which only had 5 million sellers and 23 selling more than half a million, but it must be stated that GBA's life was cut short vs other handhelds.  This also means that PSP (sales) doesn't "dominate" with DS as co-Japan rulers, PSP more or less is doing below par, with only 3 million sellers and less than 10 games selling more than a half a million.

What does this lead to? Home consoles, SNES (sales) had 29 million sellers and 64 doing more than 500k.  PS1 (sales) 33 million sellers with 79 selling more than 500k, a nice increase. PS2 (sales) with 21 million sellers (less than both SNES and NES) but 74 game selling more than 500k, still lower than PS1 but 10 more half million sellers than SNES, still a bigger decline.

Now we get to this gen (remember these are not the "final" numbers as more titles are coming), DS (sales) 33 million sellers and 61 500k sellers, which already ties PS1 in million sellers and almost as many half million sellers as SNES.  Wii (sales) with 12 million sellers but only 18 selling at least 500k, not too terribly bad for the second place console in the race.  PS3 (sales) only one million seller and six half million sellers, which is in line with the PSP's track in Japan.

Numbers don't really lie for the Japanese market, all consoles including handhelds are in the running to "win" the race, typically there is one that dominates, with another getting some nice sales, but with DS doing on par with Japan's biggest era, its obvious things aren't going down, in fact the Wii being the second place console is selling more games than the other second place consoles like GC and N64, so things could go better for Japan this gen over any other gen, and console gaming is not hurting

I agree with you in that the Japanese market is not down, in fact, it's up significantly from last gen if we go by hardware/software sales (no idea about revenue).

However, there is a handheld shift occurring. Looking at the top 10 best selling games is extremely flawed. It only shows which consoles have the most top-heavy games, and we already know that Pokemon sells the most in Japan. It's misleading - look at the top 10 games in Americas for the 5th gen, you'd think the N64 won that region over.

Look at the total software sold for a more accurate picture. Here are the total software shipments for older consoles, the numbers speak for themselves:

(source)
NES: 225.9mil
GB: 157.1mil
SNES: 194.9mil
GBA: 72.9mil
(No Sony consoles, can't find Japan-only, they mix it with Asia) 

Notice how home consoles always sell far more software than the handhelds? In fact, the GB and GBA were on the market longer than the NES and SNES (leaders 89-05 compared to 83-96), yet barely managed to sell half as much software in the same time period.

The same cannot be said this gen, as the DS has already shipped 162.7mil software by Sept09, which is already above the Gameboy. I'm unsure how far it'll go from here, but at the very least it'll overtake the SNES software. The home consoles are far behind the handhelds' pace - at the end of the third year, VGC has them at ~65m software sold, while handhelds were at ~104m.

The Wii + X360 software will never catch up to the DS, and the PS3 may never catch up with the PSP. This is shocking, as this has never been the case before - not even close, when looking at the older handhelds. To conclude, the "handheld shift" exists, it is not an illusion. Numbers don't lie, right?

As for the decline in home consoles...
I believe the current-gen home consoles are about flat with the PS2 gen, but it's counting on the strength of the Wii's top heavy games. The Wii Series alone makes up about 21% of all current-gen home console software sold, according to VGC. In fact, that's about on par with total PS3 software. That's insane. When looking at individual IP's that used to sell loads, it becomes clear that each third party game is not only selling less, but less games overall are headed to the home consoles themselves.

Core games, or the games the "enthusiastic" gamer cares about, are simply not selling as well as they used to. The home consoles can barely keep up with last gen even with the expanded audience titles, which obviously means there has been a decrease in traditional games' sales. Whether this is caused by the split in third party support due to heavier support on the handhelds or PS3 (second place console) instead of the Wii is up for debate, but the end result is what we have - lower sales.

Think of it like the American market if it didn't have the PS3 (a second HD console) to hold up its sales. Even though overall hardware/software would be keeping up with last gen, it'd look like the core market is collapsing. Luckily, this isn't the case, as both HD consoles are doing well in the west, which is why they continue to receive so much third party support.

Conclusion: Japanese home consoles are seeing less support, lower sales on their core titles like RPG's, Sports and such. There is a handheld shift, but the overall market is not down (though I don't see anyone claiming this anyway, only the home consoles).


I actually had a longer post typed up, and I accidentally closed it. Blah.



I think it is because console support is all over the place. Since there is no clear market leader (they don't treat the Wii like one) the consumers have to go to one too many consoles to get what they want.

Even worse, these Japanese games, have just been....bad. I mean, the games from established franchises have been good, but I don't see any new stuff catching fire.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

I nearly forgot about this video, just ran into it because it was on my favorites. I believe it shows software alone (I suck at Japanese), as it closely follows VGC's own software charts. Check it out:

Now, try and tell me you don't see that handheld shift occurring! The DS literally swallows the whole market! I love the music, too...

Although the vid stops at 2007, while handhelds dipped slightly 2008 (though that was the year PSP saw its own resurgence), handhelds are still consistently selling more software than home consoles, hovering around 60% marketshare.

The biggest handhelds have ever been before the DS caused this shift was when the GBA came out, back in 2001. It only claimed around 1/3 of the software, and hovered around there until its successor came along. Nowadays handhelds are closer to 2/3, though according to the video it got as high as 76.5% in 2006!