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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony Investigating PS3 Hack Allegations

Kasz216 on 25 January 2010
jkimball said:
KBG29 said:
I have no issue with hacking a system to earn kudos points, but when shit like this gets released I think the person that releases it should be given the death sentence. This is peoples lives we are talking about. A lot of people hate Sony, so it turn they are sitting in wait, hoping the hack rrives so they don't have to pay another dollar to them to play games. That is BS. This goes way beyond Sony. It extends to the whole industry, and its not the companies it effects. Companies can perform like shit, and if they are big enough the government is right there to bail them out. It is us, the working man that gets ucked by these hacks. We loose our jobs, and oppertunities to find other work in the feild gets harder.

I hope for the sake of every employee working on software for PS3, that this possible situation is taken care of.

Why do people hate Sony? 

 because they lay on the DRm a little too thick...

Taken from YOUR sig:

"wish #2 Less DRM on the PSN video store, and the addition of music"

OK, the hack removes DRM from videos. Still hate the hack now? Still willing to kill to prevent it? Hmmm....

 

 

I could be wrong... but i'm pretty sure he was the guy that spent one black friday in an electronics department argueing with people to not buy 360's and wii's and instead buy PS3s.

 

So...



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perpride on 25 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
perpride said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
Well you can play on Xbox Live with burned discs, so doing the same on PSN should be possible.

The Xbox and the PS3 are two entirely separate beasts. The fact that it's taken three years for someone to allegedly hack the hardware should have illustrated that it simply has better anti-piracy measures implemented, some undoubtedly tied in to PSN.

He started working on it 5 weeks ago.

 

Not impressed at all.

 

Took 5 weeks, 3 in Boston, 2 here, very simple hardware cleverly applied, and some not so simple software.

So if it only took 5 weeks of effort, what was he doing the past three+ years? Biding his time?

Do you have any idea the complications of creating a hack for a console? I'm not sure if you've been following or not but ALOT of effort has been put towards PS3 hacking. If this does work, this guy is a motherfucking genius - on the level of people like Dark Alex.

Also, yes, I know a shitload of ppl who are still playing Live with burnt discs. I personally got banned during the wave that hit when Modern Warfare 2 came out.

Fun story.  Mac's are easier to hack then Windows computers.

They hardly ever get hacked because few enough hackers care.

PS3 is the same way likely. (Not eaiser... but the reason it hasn't happened is, not enough people put time into it.)

While you're right about Mac's, I disagree completely. When 360 got hacked, it's userbase was not even CLOSE to what PS3 is right now. I'm pretty sure it's the same case with Wii. Hacking PS3 is harder, it's as simple as that. Initially they tried to hack it in similar ways as the PSP, but the streaming limit on the hard drive pretty much massacred that idea. There's also the fact that Blu Ray was mad expensive at first. I'm not sure where it stands now cause I stopped following a while ago, but I'm sure a lot of ppl are looking into it atm.



jkimball on 25 January 2010
Kriminology said:
I don't think most of you folks realize how the OS runs on PS3. For starters, the PS3 is not easily fooled like its sibling PSP. Sony has encrypted each hard drive to only work with a specific PS3, which eliminates the possibility of switching them out like memory sticks. The hard drive is then read by the PS3 where it makes sure the drive is registered to the specific console. After verifying the hard drive, the PS3 continues to search for needed files to boot up the OS. This is merely the logo that appears or random files hidden in the system that will trigger the “OK” to boot up. The hard drive is built in layers with the “bootflag.dat” being the first file read on each start up, which then leads into the DRM file and finally ... the game files. Several files found in between each of these makes things even more complicated to bypass. We must also note that messing with any of these files will cause the PS3 to read them as missing and not boot up correctly.

If you finally get past the hard drive, you must then face the problems hidden within the actual system itself. We all know the PS3 is a beast with a hearty 7 cells running under the hood as we brag about this on a daily basis. The problem for hackers is how only 6 of these cells are actually accessible, with the 7th cell access being denied to everyone. Not even game developers have access to this 7th cell. Now why is this cell even there if we can't use it? In a simple sentence, the 7th cell runs the PS3 completely on its own. The cell boots the system up, cracks the codes encrypted in all security branches, and finally keeps the OS running while you play a game or do whatever you normally do. The 7th cell is what verifies everything that needs to be unlocked or encrypted. The 7th cell basically double checks that everything in the PS3 actually belongs to the PS3, so users cannot trade hard drives or share illegal games without the cell noticing and denying access. With the exception of communicating with other cells, this cell cannot be written to or acknowledged by an outside source, making it completely secure from attacks.


 You can install a new HDD in any PS3, format it, and you are good to go. That means all the info needed to contruct the HDD is baked into the system, possibly even in the firmware.  And it's a regular sata drive. So montoring the HDD formatting commands is pretty easy by monitoring the sata commands sent.  I used to have a SCSI RAID card that had the monitoring feaure built in, it was used to troubleshoot syncing problems between the drives (back wehn we tuned these types of things by hand;). I am sure similar tolols exist for P/Sata drives. Reverse engineering the HDD setup is pretty straightforward and I am sure he got by that part quickly.

The problem with the 7th cell is much harder...

 



Trying to convince me the Wii is a real adult game machine 'if you play it right' is like trying to convince me Tofu tastes great 'if you just cook it right'

Netyaroze on 25 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
twesterm said:
Gilgamesh said:

One quick little firmware update by Sony will destroy however many hours he put into hacking the PS3. If it's even true.

That's why he hasn't revealed how he's doing it yet though.

Unless it's some security exploit they already know about, there isn't much they can really do until he reveals how he did it.  Of course if they already knew about the explot, you have to wonder why they hadn't fixed it yet.

I'm pretty sure this just files under generic response.  They can't really make him tell them what he's doing so they just get to sit back and wait.

So that when the hackers eventually figure it out... BAM they can slam the door and hackers have to start all over from page 1.


Or at least that's what i'd think.

 

I have posted that before but if this is true current PS3 owners will always be able to hack their systems.

Geohot:

"As far as the exploit goes, I'm not revealing it yet. The theory isn't really patchable, but they can make implementations much harder. Also, for obvious reasons I can't post dumps. I'm hoping to find the decryption keys and post them, but they may be embedded in hardware. Hopefully keys are setup like the iPhone's KBAG."

 

 

 



Kasz216 on 25 January 2010
perpride said:
Kasz216 said:
perpride said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
Well you can play on Xbox Live with burned discs, so doing the same on PSN should be possible.

The Xbox and the PS3 are two entirely separate beasts. The fact that it's taken three years for someone to allegedly hack the hardware should have illustrated that it simply has better anti-piracy measures implemented, some undoubtedly tied in to PSN.

He started working on it 5 weeks ago.

 

Not impressed at all.

 

Took 5 weeks, 3 in Boston, 2 here, very simple hardware cleverly applied, and some not so simple software.

So if it only took 5 weeks of effort, what was he doing the past three+ years? Biding his time?

Do you have any idea the complications of creating a hack for a console? I'm not sure if you've been following or not but ALOT of effort has been put towards PS3 hacking. If this does work, this guy is a motherfucking genius - on the level of people like Dark Alex.

Also, yes, I know a shitload of ppl who are still playing Live with burnt discs. I personally got banned during the wave that hit when Modern Warfare 2 came out.

Fun story.  Mac's are easier to hack then Windows computers.

They hardly ever get hacked because few enough hackers care.

PS3 is the same way likely. (Not eaiser... but the reason it hasn't happened is, not enough people put time into it.)

While you're right about Mac's, I disagree completely. When 360 got hacked, it's userbase was not even CLOSE to what PS3 is right now. I'm pretty sure it's the same case with Wii. Hacking PS3 is harder, it's as simple as that. Initially they tried to hack it in similar ways as the PSP, but the streaming limit on the hard drive pretty much massacred that idea. There's also the fact that Blu Ray was mad expensive at first. I'm not sure where it stands now cause I stopped following a while ago, but I'm sure a lot of ppl are looking into it atm.

No, but they were more popular in terms of percentage of marketshare.

These were systems that people knew they were going to use.

 

Sure the PS3 is harder to hack, but it also had a lot less people trying to hack it because it's just not that popular... and they knew it wasn't that popular.


The Wii and 360 had smaller userbases, but those userbases happened in a much quicker time... they were "the systems to own."  It's not like people hack consoles to steal stuff like they do PCs.

They hack consoles

A) For fun

B) For recognition

C) For people to use.

 

Before the PS3's big boost, you would of got a lot of recognition in the first week or two for hacking the PS3... but then nobody would care.... cause nobody would use it.



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KBG29 on 25 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
twesterm said:
Gilgamesh said:

One quick little firmware update by Sony will destroy however many hours he put into hacking the PS3. If it's even true.

That's why he hasn't revealed how he's doing it yet though.

Unless it's some security exploit they already know about, there isn't much they can really do until he reveals how he did it.  Of course if they already knew about the explot, you have to wonder why they hadn't fixed it yet.

I'm pretty sure this just files under generic response.  They can't really make him tell them what he's doing so they just get to sit back and wait.

So that when the hackers eventually figure it out... BAM they can slam the door and hackers have to start all over from page 1.


Or at least that's what i'd think.

That was over Blu-ray vs HD-DVD. I didn't care what company they bought from, I was just trying to warn them that they were buying a product that was going to be discontinued.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

perpride on 25 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
perpride said:
Kasz216 said:
perpride said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
Well you can play on Xbox Live with burned discs, so doing the same on PSN should be possible.

The Xbox and the PS3 are two entirely separate beasts. The fact that it's taken three years for someone to allegedly hack the hardware should have illustrated that it simply has better anti-piracy measures implemented, some undoubtedly tied in to PSN.

He started working on it 5 weeks ago.

 

Not impressed at all.

 

Took 5 weeks, 3 in Boston, 2 here, very simple hardware cleverly applied, and some not so simple software.

So if it only took 5 weeks of effort, what was he doing the past three+ years? Biding his time?

Do you have any idea the complications of creating a hack for a console? I'm not sure if you've been following or not but ALOT of effort has been put towards PS3 hacking. If this does work, this guy is a motherfucking genius - on the level of people like Dark Alex.

Also, yes, I know a shitload of ppl who are still playing Live with burnt discs. I personally got banned during the wave that hit when Modern Warfare 2 came out.

Fun story.  Mac's are easier to hack then Windows computers.

They hardly ever get hacked because few enough hackers care.

PS3 is the same way likely. (Not eaiser... but the reason it hasn't happened is, not enough people put time into it.)

While you're right about Mac's, I disagree completely. When 360 got hacked, it's userbase was not even CLOSE to what PS3 is right now. I'm pretty sure it's the same case with Wii. Hacking PS3 is harder, it's as simple as that. Initially they tried to hack it in similar ways as the PSP, but the streaming limit on the hard drive pretty much massacred that idea. There's also the fact that Blu Ray was mad expensive at first. I'm not sure where it stands now cause I stopped following a while ago, but I'm sure a lot of ppl are looking into it atm.

No, but they were more popular in terms of percentage of marketshare.

These were systems that people knew they were going to use.

 

Sure the PS3 is harder to hack, but it also had a lot less people trying to hack it because it's just not that popular... and they knew it wasn't that popular.


The Wii and 360 had smaller userbases, but those userbases happened in a much quicker time... they were "the systems to own."  It's not like people hack consoles to steal stuff like they do PCs.

They hack consoles

A) For fun

B) For recognition

C) For people to use.

 

Before the PS3's big boost, you would of got a lot of recognition in the first week or two for hacking the PS3... but then nobody would care.... cause nobody would use it.

I guess so...this would all make sense...except for the fact that a LOT of people HAVE been working on this like mad men. Whether something is the "system to own" doesn't really play into it imo. There are plenty of consoles, gadgets and devices that have not been extremely popular but have still been hacked very fast. In this case specifically, I know for a fact that many people have been tryin to hack the PS3 for a long time. I really don't think there's less ppl trying to hack it then there was when Xbox 360 got hacked. Or Wii.



thismeintiel on 25 January 2010
Kasz216 said:
perpride said:
Kasz216 said:
perpride said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
greenmedic88 said:
poroporo said:
Well you can play on Xbox Live with burned discs, so doing the same on PSN should be possible.

The Xbox and the PS3 are two entirely separate beasts. The fact that it's taken three years for someone to allegedly hack the hardware should have illustrated that it simply has better anti-piracy measures implemented, some undoubtedly tied in to PSN.

He started working on it 5 weeks ago.

 

Not impressed at all.

 

Took 5 weeks, 3 in Boston, 2 here, very simple hardware cleverly applied, and some not so simple software.

So if it only took 5 weeks of effort, what was he doing the past three+ years? Biding his time?

Do you have any idea the complications of creating a hack for a console? I'm not sure if you've been following or not but ALOT of effort has been put towards PS3 hacking. If this does work, this guy is a motherfucking genius - on the level of people like Dark Alex.

Also, yes, I know a shitload of ppl who are still playing Live with burnt discs. I personally got banned during the wave that hit when Modern Warfare 2 came out.

Fun story.  Mac's are easier to hack then Windows computers.

They hardly ever get hacked because few enough hackers care.

PS3 is the same way likely. (Not eaiser... but the reason it hasn't happened is, not enough people put time into it.)

While you're right about Mac's, I disagree completely. When 360 got hacked, it's userbase was not even CLOSE to what PS3 is right now. I'm pretty sure it's the same case with Wii. Hacking PS3 is harder, it's as simple as that. Initially they tried to hack it in similar ways as the PSP, but the streaming limit on the hard drive pretty much massacred that idea. There's also the fact that Blu Ray was mad expensive at first. I'm not sure where it stands now cause I stopped following a while ago, but I'm sure a lot of ppl are looking into it atm.

No, but they were more popular in terms of percentage of marketshare.

These were systems that people knew they were going to use.

 

Sure the PS3 is harder to hack, but it also had a lot less people trying to hack it because it's just not that popular... and they knew it wasn't that popular.


The Wii and 360 had smaller userbases, but those userbases happened in a much quicker time... they were "the systems to own."  It's not like people hack consoles to steal stuff like they do PCs.

They hack consoles

A) For fun

B) For recognition

C) For people to use.

 

Before the PS3's big boost, you would of got a lot of recognition in the first week or two for hacking the PS3... but then nobody would care.... cause nobody would use it.


I'm going to have to go with perpride on this one.  I mean the 360 was hacked roughly four months after its release, before the Wii or PS3 were released.  Do you really think hackers knew how sales would turn out?  Besides, hackers don't care about install base.  They care about the challenge and/or piracy.  I think it would only be natural that after hacking the 360, they would move onto the next challengers, the Wii and PS3, which the Wii they had hacked by the end of 2007.  So even if they hadn't been trying to hack the PS3 before 2008, I would have imagined they would have started then (but I think it's safe to assume they already had been working on it.)  So to actually say that the PS3 hasn't been hacked because "no one cared" is just ludicrous.



 

Netyaroze on 25 January 2010

Agree with perpride

Infact there were more people trying to hack the PS3 then WII or Xbox because its HARD hacking the PS3 would be the thing which they can earn the most fame for. And if you are only one you can sell your knowledge.

Third is the PS3 Hardware can do a lot of things due to cell its very very interesting for hackers and homebrew coder. Its cheaper then an IBM Blade server which sots 10000 Dollar. A hacked PS3 could encode 1080p mkv I heard a lot of people on different sites to different themes saying that over and over again. A full opened PS3 is probably the biggest bang for your buck out there thats why the army buys thousends of PS3s and even they dont have full access.

A hacked pS3 can enable also the 7th or even the deactivated 8th SPE (not all PS3s hae 8 functional SPES but some.

Thousends of people tried to hack it. In different countrys with 5 Ps3s you have already a strong Computer Cluster. And a PS3 can run MAC OS X atleast I read that today on BBC or was it CNN ?

It is an PC Xbox and WII are not. A full hacked PS3 would be a pretty powerful tool even today, The Price is low because its sold at loss. A comparable IBM Server cotst 10 times more. Thats why all are so eager to have an hack for the PS3.

its really a fantastic and still very powerful system.



TGolem on 25 January 2010

from what i read of the guys statements everything he accomplished is capable of doing very little with the system.