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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bitterness in the Wii fandom?

Ail on 18 January 2010

So it's all the fault of the evil Third parties.

But lets look at it from Nintendo's point of view.

Does the lack of 3rd party support affect the console sales ? I would say not a lot.

What positive effect does the lack of 3rd party support have ? My Nintendo 1st party are selling like hot cakes....

Would more third party support affect my business ? Most likely a little. better third party would eat into the sholveware sales, as Nintendo I am indifferent to this, I get the same royalty fee on either. But it would probably have a slight impact on my first party sales ( provided we consider than the overall software sales on Wii woudn't increase a tonn , just that the spread of the sales would be different..).



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

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Procrastinato on 18 January 2010
Ail said:

So it's all the fault of the evil Third parties.

But lets look at it from Nintendo's point of view.

Does the lack of 3rd party support affect the console sales ? I would say not a lot.

What positive effect does the lack of 3rd party support have ? My Nintendo 1st party are selling like hot cakes....

Would more third party support affect my business ? Most likely a little. better third party would eat into the sholveware sales, as Nintendo I am indifferent to this, I get the same royalty fee on either. But it would probably have a slight impact on my first party sales ( provided we consider than the overall software sales on Wii woudn't increase a tonn , just that the spread of the sales would be different..).

Well, lessened 3rd party sales does cut into Nintendo licensing income, which is significant -- for Nintendo.  They collect money from every unit sold, without having to pay to develop it.

However, if the 3rd parties are merely trying to consolidate budgets, to sell more units per R&D expenditure, that presumably won't affect Nintendo at all -- it'll just be a boon for the 3rd parties.

 

So Nintendo shouldn't care either way, unless the 3rd parties drop support completely.



 

Ail on 18 January 2010
Procrastinato said:
Ail said:

So it's all the fault of the evil Third parties.

But lets look at it from Nintendo's point of view.

Does the lack of 3rd party support affect the console sales ? I would say not a lot.

What positive effect does the lack of 3rd party support have ? My Nintendo 1st party are selling like hot cakes....

Would more third party support affect my business ? Most likely a little. better third party would eat into the sholveware sales, as Nintendo I am indifferent to this, I get the same royalty fee on either. But it would probably have a slight impact on my first party sales ( provided we consider than the overall software sales on Wii woudn't increase a tonn , just that the spread of the sales would be different..).

Well, lessened 3rd party sales does cut into Nintendo licensing income, which is significant -- for Nintendo.  They collect money from every unit sold, without having to pay to develop it.

However, if the 3rd parties are merely trying to consolidate budgets, to sell more units per R&D expenditure, that presumably won't affect Nintendo at all -- it'll just be a boon for the 3rd parties.

 

So Nintendo shouldn't care either way, unless the 3rd parties drop support completely.

less major third party support is going to mean more shovelware, overall less title with huge sales but overall sales won't change much....

Somehow there hasn't been much of a correlation in console gaming between the quality of the games on a platform and the attach rate, the main factor is more the demography of the console..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Demotruk on 18 January 2010
Ail said:

So it's all the fault of the evil Third parties.

But lets look at it from Nintendo's point of view.

Does the lack of 3rd party support affect the console sales ? I would say not a lot.

What positive effect does the lack of 3rd party support have ? My Nintendo 1st party are selling like hot cakes....

Would more third party support affect my business ? Most likely a little. better third party would eat into the sholveware sales, as Nintendo I am indifferent to this, I get the same royalty fee on either. But it would probably have a slight impact on my first party sales ( provided we consider than the overall software sales on Wii woudn't increase a tonn , just that the spread of the sales would be different..).

It almost certainly does. Take a look at these YoY comparison charts, they're a good way of viewing declining momentum that's not seen in week to week sales:

http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s354/Demotruk/YoYWiiChart08.png

You see the trough in late 08? That's the first software drought for Wii. Nintendo had little/nothing in this period, and there were no major third party games to pick up slack.

http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s354/Demotruk/YoYWiiChart.png

There's 09. Pretty much the whole year was a drought. It began to pick up slowly in the second half of 09 and especially in the holidays with NSMB, but there was a huge gap where Nintendo wasn't able to release any games and third parties had nothing to help.



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Ail on 18 January 2010
Demotruk said:
Ail said:

So it's all the fault of the evil Third parties.

But lets look at it from Nintendo's point of view.

Does the lack of 3rd party support affect the console sales ? I would say not a lot.

What positive effect does the lack of 3rd party support have ? My Nintendo 1st party are selling like hot cakes....

Would more third party support affect my business ? Most likely a little. better third party would eat into the sholveware sales, as Nintendo I am indifferent to this, I get the same royalty fee on either. But it would probably have a slight impact on my first party sales ( provided we consider than the overall software sales on Wii woudn't increase a tonn , just that the spread of the sales would be different..).

It almost certainly does. Take a look at these YoY comparison charts, they're a good way of viewing declining momentum that's not seen in week to week sales:

http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s354/Demotruk/YoYWiiChart08.png

You see the trough in late 08? That's the first software drought for Wii. Nintendo had little/nothing in this period, and there were no major third party games to pick up slack.

http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s354/Demotruk/YoYWiiChart.png

There's 09. Pretty much the whole year was a drought. It began to pick up slowly in the second half of 09 and especially in the holidays with NSMB, but there was a huge gap where Nintendo wasn't able to release any games and third parties had nothing to help.

 

Seems it has a lot more to do with 1st party release than 3rd party....

Sales picked up or went down because of Nintendo releases, not because of 3rd party ones.



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Around the Network
Demotruk on 18 January 2010

Yeah, but if there had been third parties there to pick up the slack...



A game I'm developing with some friends:

www.xnagg.com/zombieasteroids/publish.htm

It is largely a technical exercise but feedback is appreciated.

Alby_da_Wolf on 18 January 2010
Ail said:
Procrastinato said:
Ail said:

So it's all the fault of the evil Third parties.

But lets look at it from Nintendo's point of view.

Does the lack of 3rd party support affect the console sales ? I would say not a lot.

What positive effect does the lack of 3rd party support have ? My Nintendo 1st party are selling like hot cakes....

Would more third party support affect my business ? Most likely a little. better third party would eat into the sholveware sales, as Nintendo I am indifferent to this, I get the same royalty fee on either. But it would probably have a slight impact on my first party sales ( provided we consider than the overall software sales on Wii woudn't increase a tonn , just that the spread of the sales would be different..).

Well, lessened 3rd party sales does cut into Nintendo licensing income, which is significant -- for Nintendo.  They collect money from every unit sold, without having to pay to develop it.

However, if the 3rd parties are merely trying to consolidate budgets, to sell more units per R&D expenditure, that presumably won't affect Nintendo at all -- it'll just be a boon for the 3rd parties.

 

So Nintendo shouldn't care either way, unless the 3rd parties drop support completely.

less major third party support is going to mean more shovelware, overall less title with huge sales but overall sales won't change much....

Somehow there hasn't been much of a correlation in console gaming between the quality of the games on a platform and the attach rate, the main factor is more the demography of the console..

Excess of 3rd party shovelware and lack of 3rd p. AAA, overwhelmed by Nintendo AAA titles could confine Wii gaming in a Mario-Zelda-Metroid-WiiSomething(*) golden ghetto, but still a ghetto, this would somehow limit HW appeal and sales a bit compared to Wii's full potential. As Mario and c. have their unique style and are quite untouchable by 3rd party competition, Nintendo has more to earn from more AAA 3rd party titles than from tons of shovelware.

This IMVHO.

(*)Edit: I was forgetting "Wii-Something" Nintendo titles, that include the best sellers, added.



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Raze on 18 January 2010
_honeybadger_ said:
Raze said:
_honeybadger_ said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
The portability issue and piracy is why the games aren't working on the PSP, not the specs.

Again, Monster Hunter 3 is a watered down version of what it could have been on the PS3. That obviously didn't matter.

so MONSTER HUNTER 3 sold less than a 1/3 of what it has sold on the PSP. Even more if you check the current japanese charts Monster Hunter PSP is currently outselling Monster Hunter 3 and the reason for that is that the PSP version provides an unique experience that the WII cannot replicate.

So a game 2+ years old is selling more than the latest iteration, as I said before japanese gamers like Monster Hunter on the PSP because it allows them to play together whenever and wherever they want and thats something the console Monster Hunter cannot replicate and is made pathetic by comparison.

 

So  an unique experience that cannot be replicated by a console = portable game success.

 

Bad Example WII Fighter.

Btw, you know that MH3 outsold the PS2 version already, and it hasn't even hit the Americas or Others yet, right? Look at PS2 install base compared to Wii (roughly 50% of the PS2 userbase), MH3 is quite a success for a console game.

So franchise was unable to capture an expanded audience before, is released on a portable system and finds an Massive Fanbase, New Main entry of the franchise is made on another system that doenst share the inherent qualities of the Portable System that made it unique = product selling 3 times less than spinoff on the portable system.

 

Games Dont exist in a vacuum, I compared Monster Hunter 3 the spinoff on the PSP and the 2+ year old game is currently more popular than the 6 months old game(Monster Hunter PSP is outselling monster hunter 3 even when monster hunter 3 is sold at bargain bin prices). It doesnt means that Monster Hunter 3 is selling poorly, what it means is that the type of game that monster hunter is has proven to be more successful in order of magnitudes on the PSP and by comparison makes the Monster Hunter WII entry look pathetic.

Ah but games do exist in different markets. The handheld market is a very different animal than the home consoles. So, it makes more sense to compare the sales across like platforms, in this case PS2 MH versus MH3 on Wii.



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http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


HappySqurriel on 18 January 2010
BornFirst. said:
This thread has totally gone some where else. As a consumer if a company makes a product i like i will buy it, but if said company release a product that does not interest me in the slightest (deadly creatures and so on) and then blames me as a consumer for its failure, that is when i will start to resent the company. As a consumer i am king, you can not tell me what to buy with my money period!

This is what all this bitterness boils down to.

What I personally think is worse is when a company continues to push forward with a project that has a dramatically negative reaction with the user-base when it is announced; and then blames those users for not buying a game when they made it clear that they did not want the game in the first place. The prime example of this was EA with Dead Space Extraction.

Now, this doesn’t (necessarily) mean that a company should always listen to the noisy members of a user base, but if you’re making a game in a niche genre that is already over-represented on a platform and the users seem disappointed when you announce the game you should question the logic of continuing forward with that game in its current form.



noname2200 on 18 January 2010
theRepublic said:
noname2200 said:
theRepublic said:

What big, core third party titles?  Resident Evil 4?  Monster Hunter 3?  Call of Duty?

What big, core third party title performed so poorly?  I can't seem to recall one.  I know quite a few low budget, niche third party games which underperformed according to this forum, but I'm not sure what games you are talking about.

 Madworld, House of the Dead, and The Conduit.

Oh wait, the games' publisher disagrees on 2/3 of those.

The Conduit, Dead Space: Extraction, and Darkside Chronicles.

I wouldn't exactly call those big, but eh, who wants to argue semantics.

I...I thought my sarcasm was obvious.