God bless you and your NWO paranoid bs. If you don't like what the president is doing move back to iraq where you belong. You don't need to wear a tinfoil hat because the chinese are not trying to read your mind.

I live in the Uk, and here there is still so much love for Obama in the media, they still treat him as some sort of messiah for the whole world, but then British Media love socialist rhetoric.

The tax on insurance plans in its current plans sounds like a joke.

If it looks like a troll, Posts like a troll, and eats billy goats like a troll, you have a troll

To be fair.

Had bush Ran against nobody during his second term he'd of lost as well.

However he ran against John Kerry... So he won.

I much imagine Mitt Romney will play the Republican Kerry.

Nah, there are plenty of bills that could work well without a public option.  This just isn't one of them. 

Besides, the public option wouldn't of ended up any good anyway.  I mean we have lots of non-profit insurance companies and they can't provide cheaper health insurance then the for profit ones.

Hell to get this bill passed, the government had to promise to pay more for medicare.

To get any healthcare bill to work, you first need an election reformation bill.

The bottom line is health insurance is expensive because healthcare is expensive. If you want to make the insurance cheep (government or private), you need to make healthcare cost less.

Nothing in this bill, with or without a public option, addresses that issue.

@Mafoo -

That is the core of the problem. We spend more GDP than any other country on healthcare. It seems that most people's answer for this is to have the government take care of it.

That does absolutely nothing to take care of the costs of healthcare. Manus argues that administrative costs will be saved under a single-payer system. That may be true, but administrative costs are a fraction of the total expenses incurred by healthcare. So under a single-payer system you may reduce prices by 5%, but the problem is that you need something that reduces prices by 50%.

Furthermore, if the government pays for everyone, then that means that the percentage of GDP the US pays out for healthcare will go UP because you have more people requiring the care.

So if the government pays for it, then taxes will be required to balance out the costs of a national healthcare bill.

In such a system, taxes would rise by 20% to cover the costs of taking over the healthcare field. America would become one of the most-taxed nations in the world. Do you think that would really be advantageous? Doubtful. Cost of living would go up, and Americans, despite having healthcare, would have far less money to spend than they do now.

The other answer for that 20% tax increase is to forcefully lower the amount of GDP spent on healtcare. That could only be accomplished through forcing a rationing schema for those under the system. In such a system, would that really be a fair tradeoff? Forceful rationing for a 5% decrease in healthcare costs?

That is the elephant in the room. Americans have far more discretionary income than French, British or Germans do. Because of lower taxes, our citizens have far more money to spend and live off of than European counterparts. If you force healthcare on Americans, then that advantage goes away, and we become as expensive to live in as Europe. That would cause America to be far less competitive and decrease overall quality of living in the states.

Of the top 10 countries, in terms of cost of living, European countries make up every country on the list. That is something that I think our European friends aren't wanting to discuss in the conversation.

So I gotta ask to Europeans commenting on this list:

How do you like paying 30-40% more for every good and service in your country for your free healthcare?

Im European. For me the whole idea of so called "Free" Healthcare is a joke, because nothing in Free healthcare is free.

Government forcing people to high taxes on services they might simply never use or not choose to use , to fund enormous beuracracy, overemployment and bad managment. Combined with worsening services , extending waiting periods and rising prescription charges all in the name of so populism. Facts are that the moment Healthcare system becomes public it becomes a bottomless pit of wasting public money which costs more and more every year. 

People should have as much choice as they can with what to do with their money, if some people want to have expensive insurance or be treated in private clinics they shouldn't be forced to pay for public healthcare. 

I lived in Poland and UK for some quite time now, and in both of those countries so called "Free" Healthcare costs ridicilous amounts of money , and the standards arent too good.

And it comes from a guy that is constantly broke, but i just hate the idea of Government telling me what's right for me.

Im European. For me the whole idea of so called "Free" Healthcare is a joke, because nothing in Free healthcare is free.

Government forcing people to high taxes on services they might simply never use or not choose to use , to fund enormous beuracracy, overemployment and bad managment. Combined with worsening services , extending waiting periods and rising prescription charges all in the name of so populism. Facts are that the moment Healthcare system becomes public it becomes a bottomless pit of wasting public money which costs more and more every year. 

People should have as much choice as they can with what to do with their money, if some people want to have expensive insurance or be treated in private clinics they shouldn't be forced to pay for public healthcare. 

I lived in Poland and UK for some quite time now, and in both of those countries so called "Free" Healthcare costs ridicilous amounts of money , and the standards arent too good.

And it comes from a guy that is constantly broke, but i just hate the idea of Government telling me what's right for me.

Healthcare will never work in America until personal responsibility is taken into account. Most other insurance programs work perfectly well, and it's obvious why. In this country, most people take good care of their houses, good care of their cars, etc. But how many actually take good care of their bodies? A surprisingly low amount. Until that problem is solved, and we don't have thousands of cases of diabetes and heart disease and cancer each year, then I don't see how healthcare can work.