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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox 360 in Japan: Critical mass achieved?

TheBigFatJ said:
NJ5 said:

(1) Additional heatsink to prevent RRoD
(2) HDMI output
(3) Low-power and low-thermal radiation shrinked CPU (Falcon)



Why do so many people assume the new heatsink settings are helping against the RROD error? Look at the SA thread on the issue: ~20% of the Xbox 360s repaired come back and break within weeks and, disturbingly, many people are getting brand new 360s that break within the 30 day period whereby they can return it to the store (this includes new bundles, elites, etc).

The new heatsinks don't seem to have fixed anything. People need to realize that failure rates take a while to pan out, so if Microsoft makes a change, we won't know the true failure rate for that change for some time. People are just hoping that the 360 is fixed so they can justify buying one themselves. I'd love to buy one if they didn't have continued quality problems.

This will be apparent in 12 months when people are still getting failures on relatively new units at that time and we have an influx of failed units that will have been sold during the '07 holidays. This will bite Microsoft in the ass because it will have been the second time they claimed they fixed the Xbox 360 without actually fixing it and, as stated above, the Japanese will not forget about it.

The 360 has a fantastic library so far this generation. Its hardware just sucks, and continues to suck.


I think most people "think" the new heat-sinks are helping because they actually are helping. If you realize that a LOT more hot air is being pushed out of the console then the previous versions, then you'll understand that the newer consoles are not running as hot as the older ones (sans new heat-sink). Knowing that the main culprit of all red ring errors is due to overheating and consequential warping of the motherboard (causing the chips to pop off), it's obvious that this new heat-sink will make a very positive impact on the reliability. The new DVD drives are MUCH better than the older drives as well, both in sound output when running at full speed and in disk-read errors (that is to say, they don’t happen; at least to me).

While I can't comment on whether these improvements eradicate the errors (I don't think anyone can at this point), I do know that since purchasing my July-made Elite in early August,  I've probably used it more than the average (that is, casual gamer I suppose you could call him/her) uses their console in an entire year. It’s on every single day, often for 6-8 hours at a time. I even recently left my Elite on running a game (accidentally) for an entire weekend, and it worked perfectly fine upon my return. I have no doubts in the new hardware; and although this based on nothing scientific, I consider the majority of the reliability issues handled. 

I'm not sure if the better reliable consoles apply to those getting returns/refurbished consoles. though. I get the feeling that something about those refurbished/”new” consoles isn't up to the quality of the brand new consoles sold in stores. I wonder if the “new” consoles are actually new…or if they just slapped some new component in an old/failed console that had been returned and put a new manufactured date on it…which I wouldn’t put past MS to do. I do feel awful for people that have been afflicted by multiple system failures...and if that happened to me, I doubt I'd be happy with the MS nor would I probably still support the 360 as much as I do now. 

However, all that being said I do feel so long as you purchase a console that was made post-April, you should be confident that the console will be much more reliable than the previous versions. From my point of view, it’s pretty obvious that the new consoles are much more solid. Of course hardware failures will happen (no piece of hardware in CE is immune to failures), but I think that the rate is down to a much more reasonable level with the new hardware (probably close to the industry standard rate for failures, which is where the PS3 and Wii are at). You'll still hear about the failures on the internet because there are millions of people with old hardware out there; but I doubt you'll hear much, if anything, about the new consoles failing.

I suppose my point is, then: people who in the past have really wanted a 360, but were waiting for more reliable consoles, should at least consider the 360 now. I won’t say “buy it now!” because, well, it’s your choice of how to spend your money…but if you’ve wanted a 360 for a while, now is a great time to get one as you’ll get a more reliable console along with a great lineup of games. I know my friends who’ve finally gotten a 360 since the newer configuration has come out have been very pleased with the reliability and the new DVD drives (which are so much more quiet than the annoyingly loud ass launch drives (which is one reason I gave my launch console to my brother)). This is just my opinion, however; so please don't take it as fact (then again, most everything stated on here is opinion).  



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Gamerace said:
Has MS actually claimed that it's fixed with the newer units? I know it's common expectation, but I've never seen an official statement to that effect.
 

No, they have not. And they never will claim such a thing. Imagine how silly they would sound to come out and say something along the lines of "Our old consoles were crappy...but our new ones work fine!". As unfortunate as that sounds, you can count on them never claiming their consoles have been "fixed".

You'll just have to gauge the responses of new console owners to see if they feel their consoles are more solid then the older models. Having had a launch console (that is still working surprisingly and that I've given to my brother) I know my July-made Elite is incredibly more reliable. I've used it hundreds of hours since I bought it, and I've never been worried about it breaking down on me (unlike my launch model that I was often worried about). Everyone I know who has recently purchased a console states that they feel much more confident in their console's reliability compared to the old models. Of course, this is just my own opinion/anecdotal evidence, and so you can take it for what it is...

However, don't expect anything "official" ever from MS as it would be completely stupid/unnecessary (in their eyes) to come out and say something like that. Not only would it be admitting that there was a problem to begin with (which they cleverly have never done), but it would open up many legal issues with people wanting to sue/clamoring for recalls. This is all stuff they want to avoid. And even if it's "wrong", they know the best method is to pretend nothing was ever wrong to begin with, and the system failures were isolated...and if there never was a problem to begin with, there would be no need to come out and say the new consoles are "fixed"...sucks I know for everyone that so wants to get a console but won't because they're waiting for a solid announcement regarding it...but to those waiting, you'll never get one. The best you can hope for is the type of opinion I've given...or maybe someone out there will be brave enough to open up a console and mess with it to test the new innards...but that's all you'll get. 

At least the new consoles are so much better than the old ones; otherwise, I wouldn’t be supporting the 360 at all concerning this stuff. 

 



Its great that micrsoft is getting japanese support and console sales are up but I doubt it can keep it up. I could be wrong but I doubt that. Microsoft is doing great in changing the perception the japanese have of the xbox but the 360 will remain in third place in Japan.

What they need to is keep showing the japanese that micrsoft is a comapny that can deliver great games and by the time the next xbox comes out, they will have more credibility which will translate to a better launch.

Also when microsoft is designing the next xbox they need to get some japanese designers to make the thing more appealing to the japanese.



 

I think Microsoft has met the critical mass for the 360. The hardware has seen some improvements. The library is large enough, diverse enough, and has the required genres to appeal in that market. Further more Microsoft has made an appealing offer with their new bundled units. So all these factors combined should result in a chain reaction. All the ingredients are there for the console to break out from mediocrity.

Were the console to not break out now, and start to chain these effects together to get better results. I would not only question the potential for the console to ever break out, but I would question whether there is anything Microsoft can do to break out. They have so much in their favor on face value.

The question would then be what does it take for Microsoft to make critical mass in this market. How many great games do they need. How much do they have to bloat particular genres. How much value must be included in the machine.

We need to see next weeks sales if the console plummets below ten thousand units again given the season, and their new offers. Then there is little to no chance that the console can ever reach a critical mass. When you do all the right things, and gain no significant ground. What else can you do.