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Forums - Sony Discussion - Should Sony Abandon the PSP?, or You Can't Spell Ignorant without...

loves2splooge said:

It's amazing how great DS games can look at such a low resolution (320x240) compared to higher-res PS1 games like FF7 (PS1 can go up to 640x480).

Obviously with a smaller screens come compression. However, the visible difference between FFVII compressed to the DS and displayed in its natural resolution would be absolutely nothing on the DS's screens. In fact it would probably look cleaner, and smoother. 



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Come on people, FFVII or VIII on the DS is irrelevant, a guy just said he loved the psp because he could play those games in it, you could also say you could have gears on ps3 or shadow of the colossus on wii if the 360 and ps2 didnt exist, but they do.

On topic, the psp has been profitable, has had great games and still sells healthy, the software sales are troublesome but I doubt sony should discontinue it or something like that because it still brings a lot of money, they shpuld focus on trying to stop the potential sales they could get.



famousringo said:
He lost me when he asserted that Sega was once synonymous with gaming.

I actually had to reread that sentance like 5 times to make sure I read it right.




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Back in the day, the vast majority of FMV in Playstation games was encoded using MPEG-1 at a resolution of 352x240 which worked out to being (approximately) 1-hour per CD; the Nintendo DS has the processing power to run (appropriate resolution) DivX videos which represents (approximately) 6 times the compression of MPEG-1. With this in mind, and being that the vast majority of the data on Playstation 1 games was FMV, most of these games could easily be put on the DS.



jarrod said:
dharh said:
naznatips said:
dharh said:

jarrod said:

In fairness, DS is perfectly capable of running games like FFVII and FFVIII.  If PSP didn't exist, maybe we'd have gotten new DS ports/localizations of them?

The DS is not capable of running FFVII or FFVIII. Even the DSi can't. The largest DS cart (currently 512mb) would only hold 1/3 of either of these games.

You are quite confused. Much of that space is created because of the resolution the game was originally created to display in. When compressed down to the size of the DS's screens with the quality of the FMV in FFVII it would be less disc space than even the FFIV remake used, and significantly less than Dragon Quest IX. 

Hell even completely uncompressed the game is only 1.32GBs on PSN. It would easily fit on a 512 DS cart with modern compression. 

I was only talking the size 'as is'. Of course if they did a remake and changed/compressed all the assets they could probably shrink to half, I would need to see proof before i'd except the whole game without removal of anything and compromise on quality could fit on a 512 DS cart. FFVII is indeed 1352MB, a little under 3 times the size of a DS cart. FFVIII on the other hand is 1820MB a little over 3 times the size of a DS cart. So I am not the least bit confused. FFIV is an alright game, but doesn't match FFVII or FFVIII in scope.

I'm not linking you, but you can look at the data sets on any torrent site.  The vast majority of information on each disc is MPEG video and uncompressed audio.

DS couldn't run the game "as is" regardless, it can't emulate PS1 code and would need to be ported anyway, so I'm not sure why you'd even bring that up?  Of course, DS as a platform can pretty much anything we saw on either game.

As an aside, how do you think Capcom/Angel Studios got RE2 (a 2 disc PS1 game) on to a tiny 32MB N64 cart? Magic?

Compression schemes, downscaled assets/FMVs, re-optimization of code sets. Without playing the two different RE2s I wouldn't know if they removed certain aspects of the N64 version. 



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



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naznatips said:
Brennan said:

lol @ FFVII on DS. Seriously, no... There are limits to what the DS can do and FFVII is clearly above those limits.

(No offense for DS, it's still a great console).

.... the DS is more powerful than the Nintendo 64, which was a lot more powerful than the PS1. But you don't even need to believe that... there's plenty of proof in screens...

 

Kingdom Hearts DS

FFVII in very small instanced combat (which is still below the open world graphics of KH)

How FFVII really looks most of the time

Lego Rock Band on DS

The better comparison would be FFVIII vs these games. But outdated polygon counts aside, N64 was more powerful than the PS1 (though I dunno about 'a lot'). However, because of the limitations of the cart size it lost out. New compression schemes, new methods for pushing/hiding polygons, half the resolution. It's not hard to see how the DS could run N64 games. Maybe even FFVII and FVIII with all the FMVs removed and the assets resolution cut in half.

As I said before, i'd prefer the PSP/PS3 version. 



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



I had at one point both a DS and a PSP. I do not believe that they can both fit in the same category as there is a market for both. The games I can get on the PSP, is not at all possible on the DS and some games on the DS are not possible on the PSP.

The PSP is more focussed on people who want high grade/'higher definition' handheld graphics. A miniature full fledge console and are willing to pay for it. Games such as Ridge Racer, Chains of Olympus, FF:CC etc define the PSP. Exceptions are Patapons and Locoroco.

The DS is a casual, low qual graphics cheaper console that most casual/pokemon gamers would require. I believe there is a higher market for people who just want to chill out on their spare time with a small/less intense game which is what the majority of DS games are like. Titles like brain training, Pokemon, Cooking Mama(!), Layton etc, define the platform norm. Exceptions of course are Dragon quest for example.

All in all, depending on your taste, both the PSP and the DS might fit for you. Apart from the fact that they are both portable, there is nothing really similar to both. They can co-exist.



I am a Gamer... I play games and not consoles. I have a PC and Console on which I game... I like games. End of Story!

i'm not gonna lie, if i ever buy a PSP it would be for emulation purposes, and to play games for free. I hope they don't kill the psp.



dharh said:
jarrod said:
dharh said:
naznatips said:
dharh said:

jarrod said:

In fairness, DS is perfectly capable of running games like FFVII and FFVIII.  If PSP didn't exist, maybe we'd have gotten new DS ports/localizations of them?

The DS is not capable of running FFVII or FFVIII. Even the DSi can't. The largest DS cart (currently 512mb) would only hold 1/3 of either of these games.

You are quite confused. Much of that space is created because of the resolution the game was originally created to display in. When compressed down to the size of the DS's screens with the quality of the FMV in FFVII it would be less disc space than even the FFIV remake used, and significantly less than Dragon Quest IX. 

Hell even completely uncompressed the game is only 1.32GBs on PSN. It would easily fit on a 512 DS cart with modern compression. 

I was only talking the size 'as is'. Of course if they did a remake and changed/compressed all the assets they could probably shrink to half, I would need to see proof before i'd except the whole game without removal of anything and compromise on quality could fit on a 512 DS cart. FFVII is indeed 1352MB, a little under 3 times the size of a DS cart. FFVIII on the other hand is 1820MB a little over 3 times the size of a DS cart. So I am not the least bit confused. FFIV is an alright game, but doesn't match FFVII or FFVIII in scope.

I'm not linking you, but you can look at the data sets on any torrent site.  The vast majority of information on each disc is MPEG video and uncompressed audio.

DS couldn't run the game "as is" regardless, it can't emulate PS1 code and would need to be ported anyway, so I'm not sure why you'd even bring that up?  Of course, DS as a platform can pretty much anything we saw on either game.

As an aside, how do you think Capcom/Angel Studios got RE2 (a 2 disc PS1 game) on to a tiny 32MB N64 cart? Magic?

Compression schemes, downscaled assets/FMVs, re-optimization of code sets. Without playing the two different RE2s I wouldn't know if they removed certain aspects of the N64 version. 

One ~2.5 minute FMV and the Extreme Battle Mode were cut, that's it.  In return, the N64 version had a high res option (using the 4MB RAM pack), additional game options (item randomizer, blood level, blood color, analog controls) and added EX files.  The game looked and controlled MUCH better, but the audio/FMV did take quite hit due to compression.

Not only could FFVII/FVIII be redone on DS, they could both be improved on it.



pastro243 said:
Come on people, FFVII or VIII on the DS is irrelevant, a guy just said he loved the psp because he could play those games in it, you could also say you could have gears on ps3 or shadow of the colossus on wii if the 360 and ps2 didnt exist, but they do.

He asserted PSP can do things and run games that DS fundamentally can't, which is totally true and completely legitimate.  He then pointed to FFVII & FFVIII, which could each easily be done on DS. :/

What's actually irrelevant is your useless 1st party software comparison there.