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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Lead developer exposes Natal inner-workings

selnor said:
NJ5 said:

Natal can calculate where the player’s hand is even if its hidden behind their back.


Put your hand behind your back, spin it around and make your own conclusions about the validity of this PR...

Oh, and 50 MB? If it occupies that in RAM, that's quite a lot, about 20% of RAM gone.

 

Not RAM. He is refferring to the size of the software. 50mb.

And where does software reside? In RAM. Especially with systems that work in real-time like games, a computer doesn't have time to bring 50 MB every frame from the hard drive.

 



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NJ5, we don't know if he is speaking about the size of the SDK or the actual run time size of the dlls.

And handling hidden body parts locations programmatically is no trivial task.



NJ5 said:

Oh, and 50 MB? If it occupies that in RAM, that's quite a lot, about 20% of RAM gone.

 

50MB is less than 10% of the 360's 512MB of RAM



NJ5 said:
nightsurge said:

Read what Wyku posted...  He never said they can track what your hand is doing, just the location.  You are arguing something they did not even claim.

 

If they mean that they know the hand is always at the end of the arm (which length is known), that's hardly a reason to brag lol.

 

That's why I am surprised you were drawing such attention to this.  The algorithms should enable this to be very easy to do with Natal.  He wasn't bragging, just trying to emphasize that this technology isn't limited to a front view of non-overlapping movements.



JaggedSac said:
NJ5, we don't know if he is speaking about the size of the SDK or the actual run time size of the dlls.

And handling hidden body parts locations programmatically is no trivial task.

That's true, but the quote made me think it was the recognition software:

The result was a 50-megabyte software package that can recognise 31 different body parts in any video frame.

I maintain that calculating where the hand is from the arm's angle and length is trivial. High school maths, at most?

cgenerated said:
NJ5 said:

Oh, and 50 MB? If it occupies that in RAM, that's quite a lot, about 20% of RAM gone.

 

50MB is less than 10% of the 360's 512MB of RAM

Around half of the RAM is used for graphical memory (depending on the game, that's why I said "about").

 



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i keep wondering why so many people have a problem(s)with natal or are always trying to find way to,just wait until it launches ok?i for one am excited for the tech and will wait and see what it can deliver without speculation.



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NJ5 said:
JaggedSac said:
NJ5, we don't know if he is speaking about the size of the SDK or the actual run time size of the dlls.

And handling hidden body parts locations programmatically is no trivial task.

That's true, but the quote made me think it was the recognition software:

The result was a 50-megabyte software package that can recognise 31 different body parts in any video frame.

I maintain that calculating where the hand is from the arm's angle and length is trivial. High school maths, at most?

cgenerated said:
NJ5 said:

Oh, and 50 MB? If it occupies that in RAM, that's quite a lot, about 20% of RAM gone.

 

50MB is less than 10% of the 360's 512MB of RAM

Around half of the RAM is used for graphical memory (depending on the game, that's why I said "about").

 

Unlike the PS3, the memory on the 360 is integrated, so one can't say that half the RAM is used for graphical memory.  How much is used depends on how developers allocate it.  With the PS3, that would be true though, but it isn't so with the 360.



PsicloneX said:
i keep wondering why so many people have a problem(s)with natal or are always trying to find way to,just wait until it launches ok?i for one am excited for the tech and will wait and see what it can deliver without speculation.

Critical thinking is usually more useful than the nihilism you're advocating. Especially in a forum where we're actually supposed to discuss things and not just gobble up whatever PR a company can come up with.

richardhutnik said:

Unlike the PS3, the memory on the 360 is integrated, so one can't say that half the RAM is used for graphical memory.  How much is used depends on how developers allocate it.  With the PS3, that would be true though, but it isn't so with the 360.

I admit I could have phrased it better, but it's kind of nitpicking when in practice a game will divide the RAM between CPU RAM and GPU RAM. Half or not, it won'be too far in most cases (it's not a coincidence that Sony did 256+256).

 



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PsicloneX said:
i keep wondering why so many people have a problem(s)with natal or are always trying to find way to,just wait until it launches ok?i for one am excited for the tech and will wait and see what it can deliver without speculation.

The pessimists and the people who just want to break the tech and see it's flaws cause when new technology is used for gaming people always look down on it (the wii) and people still do



PsicloneX said:
i keep wondering why so many people have a problem(s)with natal or are always trying to find way to,just wait until it launches ok?i for one am excited for the tech and will wait and see what it can deliver without speculation.

Maybe it's because Microsoft has been putting on a Wizard of Oz type of show. Obviously the components are all there to make it a reality, but the way they've been handling it has been very controlled. Subconsciously people don't like that, they'd rather see the device's flaws for themselves if there are any, and forgive them.

Microsoft is overhyping it ahead of time, intead of just supporting it's own hype. They've done this with a lot of technologies including Windows 95, so even if it's orders of magnitude better than what they're saying, they still need to be able to let us see it properly. And talk about it properly.

They've been buying press like crazy for this thing, and swarming message boards with viral marketers. People may not consciously be aware of it, but they get the vibe and they know it. Microsoft needs to have a little more faith in their product if it's so great.