By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - New Scientist Article on NATAL

New Scientist has an interesting article about NATAL here http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527426.800-microsofts-bodysensing-buttonbusting-controller.html

 

A LONG-lived videogaming skill could be on the way out this year as Microsoft hones an add-on to its Xbox 360 console aimed at making button-studded games controllers obsolete. The device, called Natal after the city in northern Brazil, allows players to control a game using only their body movements and voice. Robbie Bach, Microsoft's president of entertainment and devices, announced at the CES show in Las Vegas, Arizona, this week that Natal would go on sale in November.

Microsoft unveiled Natal in June 2009 at the E3 games industry expo in Los Angeles, but revealed little about how it works. Now the company has allowed New Scientist access to the device and its creators to discover more details.

A player standing anywhere between 0.8 and 4 metres from Natal is illuminated with infrared light. A monochrome video camera records how much of that light they reflect, using the brightness of the signal to approximate their distance from the device and capture their movements in 3D.

This means Natal doesn't require users to wear markers on their body - unlike the technology used by movie studios to animate CGI figures.

Motion capture normally requires massive processing power, and paring down the software to run on an everyday games console was a serious challenge, says Natal's lead developer, Alex Kipman. "Natal has to work on the existing hardware without taking too much hardware processing away from the games developers."

Microsoft collected "terabytes" of data of people in poses likely to crop up during game play, both in motion capture studios and their own homes. Frames from the home videos were manually labelled to identify key body parts, and the data was then fed into "expert system" software running on a powerful cluster of computers. The result was a 50-megabyte software package that can recognise 31 different body parts in any video frame.

"When we train this 'brain' we are telling it: this is the head, this is the shoulder. And we're doing that over millions of frames," says Kipman. "When it sees a new image it can tell you the probability it's seeing a certain body part based on that historical information."

Natal also includes software that has a basic understanding of human anatomy. Using its knowledge that, for example, hands are connected to arms, which are attached to shoulders, it can refine its guesses about body pose to recognise where body parts are even when they are hidden from Natal's camera.

"It correctly positions your hand even if it's held behind your back," Kipman says. "It knows the hand can only be in one place." That's important because during multiplayer games there won't always be a clear view of both players at all times.

He says Natal consumes just 10 to 15 per cent of the Xbox's computing resources and it can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds. It needs only 160 milliseconds to latch on to the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it.

The system locates body parts to within a 4-centimetre cube, says Kipman. That's far less precise than lab-based systems or the millimetre precision of Hollywood motion capture. But Douglas Lanman, who works on markerless 3D interaction at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, and is not involved with Natal, says that this will likely be accurate enough for gamers.

Lanman is watching closely to see what kind of games Natal makes possible, and how they are received. "Will users find them as compelling as they found the Wii games? Is it important to have physical buttons? We'll know soon."

Those kind of questions, and a desire to move away from the controller-focused interaction that has dominated for decades, are central to Natal, Kipman says. "We think input using existing controllers is the barrier, and by erasing that we can realistically say: all you need to play is life experience."

 

Some interesting stuff here.



Around the Network

10-15 percent... it's not nearly as bad as I thought and this kind of stuff will be factored into next gen



"He says Natal consumes just 10 to 15 per cent of the Xbox's computing resources and it can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds. It needs only 160 milliseconds to latch on to the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it."

I thought the camera was meant to have its own CPU for such calculations?



@Scoobes - We already had an article today that said Natal will not have it's own CPU, it will rely on the XB360's processor



Just waiting for that PS Vita to come out so I can play some full featured games on the go with that beautiful screen and control scheme...

The technological issues are the easiest to be solved.
The quality of the software and the general reception of the gaming public are the two key elements which will determine the success (or lack thereof) of this peripheral.

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

Around the Network
Scoobes said:
"He says Natal consumes just 10 to 15 per cent of the Xbox's computing resources and it can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds. It needs only 160 milliseconds to latch on to the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it."

I thought the camera was meant to have its own CPU for such calculations?

A rumor surfaced earlier today that stated that Microsoft dropped the Natal Chip for economical reasons. Well it's not a rumor now that it has been confirmed but it was earlier.

@OP, the article is not really interesting. New videos of games being played using Natal would be interesting. Now that all this new information has come to light and has led to speculations about how Natal will perform.



If Nintendo is successful at the moment, it’s because they are good, and I cannot blame them for that. What we should do is try to be just as good.----Laurent Benadiba

 

Very nice find. Thanks for this.



That was a fascinating article on Natal. I'm a little surprised with the direction they took on how to handle body motion. I was pretty sure they would use image comparison to prior image. Rather than image comparison to image index table and recognition. Tough i'm sure the sampled comparison is still implemented when wanted.

My expectations are up in regards to it's capabilities, though not that much up. Might be some interesting potential, but I still don't buy that the lack of all controls will be the final answer.

I suspect that the NextBox will be a combination of a WiiLikeRemote + Natal combo. Which will provide incredible gaming combination.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

patjuan32 said:
Scoobes said:
"He says Natal consumes just 10 to 15 per cent of the Xbox's computing resources and it can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds. It needs only 160 milliseconds to latch on to the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it."

I thought the camera was meant to have its own CPU for such calculations?

A rumor surfaced earlier today that stated that Microsoft dropped the Natal Chip for economical reasons. Well it's not a rumor now that it has been confirmed but it was earlier.

@OP, the article is not really interesting. New videos of games being played using Natal would be interesting. Now that all this new information has come to light and has led to speculations about how Natal will perform.


If you think the article wasn't interesting then you have no interest in the technology behind NATAL.  The key take away from the article is that Machine learning drives NATAL. 



ramses01 said:
patjuan32 said:
Scoobes said:
"He says Natal consumes just 10 to 15 per cent of the Xbox's computing resources and it can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds. It needs only 160 milliseconds to latch on to the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it."

I thought the camera was meant to have its own CPU for such calculations?

A rumor surfaced earlier today that stated that Microsoft dropped the Natal Chip for economical reasons. Well it's not a rumor now that it has been confirmed but it was earlier.

@OP, the article is not really interesting. New videos of games being played using Natal would be interesting. Now that all this new information has come to light and has led to speculations about how Natal will perform.


If you think the article wasn't interesting then you have no interest in the technology behind NATAL.  The key take away from the article is that Machine learning drives NATAL. 

Sorry that I rained on your parade but it's not the talk that interest me, lip service means nothing. Actually demostrating what the technology can do is a lot more interesting.



If Nintendo is successful at the moment, it’s because they are good, and I cannot blame them for that. What we should do is try to be just as good.----Laurent Benadiba