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Forums - General Discussion - Can I spare several minutes of your time?

donathos said:
Squilliam said:

Oh no what Israel do?

I know! Israel make compromise to ensure peace.


Here's the problem: there is a contingent in the Middle East that wants to see Israel completely eliminated... and sometimes it doesn't seem like a small number.

So, it's not 100% clear to me that the "compromises" under discussion would "ensure peace."  I think some Israelis fear that, by compromising and thereby empowering Palestine, they're helping those who want to destroy Israel.

Exactly what I've been saying too. You hit the nail on the head.



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Slimebeast said:

I am all for Israel taking the whole of Jerusalem and keeping it as their undivided capital until the end of time.

Jerusalem belongs to Jews only.


I don't think that Jerusalem has to belong to "the Jews."  I'm sure that there are many Israeli citizens who aren't either ethnic or religious Jews, and--someone correct me if I'm wrong--but I'm pretty sure that Israel isn't a theocracy; its political apparati ought to be available universally to its citizens, without respect to ethnicity, religion, heritage, etc.  Right?



Slimebeast said:

I am all for Israel taking the whole of Jerusalem and keeping it as their undivided capital until the end of time.

Jerusalem belongs to Jews only.

You have so much hate for the muslim community my friend. I usually turn a blind eye to all hate comments but you in particular have been on a roll lately. You curse muslims in other nations and demand that they leave other countries, claiming that they force their beliefs and practices on others. Now you want them to cease to exist in a land that they've been living in for 14 hundred years ...

 

@squilliam

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but thank you for doing your homework. You have gained a lot of respect from me.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

and for the record, I am Muslim and my father's Palestinian. Does that change the way many of you think of me? Something tells me yes.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

SciFiBoy said:
@Slimebeast

why does London belong to the English?
who are the English?

The English are the citizens of England. London belongs to them because it lies in England and they built it, and the whole world is organized and divided into sovereign nation states.



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Mr Khan said:
Slimebeast said:
Kamal said:
Slimebeast said:

I am all for Israel taking the whole of Jerusalem and keeping it as their undivided capital until the end of time.

Jerusalem belongs to Jews only.

Ermmm how? Please elaborate?

 

With that logic the indigenous white are the supreme rulers of this country. Such a extreme and irrational statement.

It's simple. Just like London belongs to the English or Berlin belongs only to the Germans and Paris belongs only to the French.

Of course it's okay for the Arabs to keep living in Jerusalem, but the city should belong to and be governed by the Jewish state of Israel. And Arabs in Jerusalem can only voice their opinion through the institutions in the Israeli society.

If you're talking about ethnic self-determination, that rather goes against your argument. The Jews, at least in modern times, arrived in Israel artificially. Granted, the Palestinians (being of Arab ethnicity), injected themselves there as well, but they have a sizable head-start of 1200 years or so.

 

Do the Jews have the right to a homeland? It's a tough academic question, since they would have to supplant a native people wherever they could go. If we take an absolute "a land belongs to its people" approach, Jews have no-where to go that they could legitimately call their home (at least, call their home exclusively)

The Jews have been in Israel and Jerusalem continuously for three thousand years. The majority of Jews were once cast out of Israel unfairly.

Of course the Jews have right to a homeland, and that land is Israel.



donathos said:
Slimebeast said:

I am all for Israel taking the whole of Jerusalem and keeping it as their undivided capital until the end of time.

Jerusalem belongs to Jews only.


I don't think that Jerusalem has to belong to "the Jews."  I'm sure that there are many Israeli citizens who aren't either ethnic or religious Jews, and--someone correct me if I'm wrong--but I'm pretty sure that Israel isn't a theocracy; its political apparati ought to be available universally to its citizens, without respect to ethnicity, religion, heritage, etc.  Right?

But the majority of Israel's population are Jews and the majority's clear ambition is to keep Israel a Jewish state with Jerusalem as it's undivided capital.



Slimebeast said:
SciFiBoy said:
@Slimebeast

why does London belong to the English?
who are the English?

The English are the citizens of England. London belongs to them because it lies in England and they built it, and the whole world is organized and divided into sovereign nation states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

it was founded by the Roman Empire, im curious, do you think that makes it there property?

it is currently the capital of the nation of England, but we are not the original settlers (in fact, even the romans arent, primitive tribes are, but I would imagine they are long dead, they may not even have descendants)

what im getting at is this: how do YOU decide the parameters for which land belongs to which people and from which nations?



hatmoza said:
Slimebeast said:

I am all for Israel taking the whole of Jerusalem and keeping it as their undivided capital until the end of time.

Jerusalem belongs to Jews only.

You have so much hate for the muslim community my friend. I usually turn a blind eye to all hate comments but you in particular have been on a roll lately. You curse muslims in other nations and demand that they leave other countries, claiming that they force their beliefs and practices on others. Now you want them to cease to exist in a land that they've been living in for 14 hundred years ...

I don't think hate is the right word but I understand what you mean.

Well, in my opinion that movement is a threat to the world in general and to the West in particular.

Yes I would like them to disappear from the tiny land of Israel because they have so much room elsewere, but what's so conroversial about that opinion when almost all socialists and muslims would like Israel to disappear from the Middle East?



Slimebeast said:
Mr Khan said:
Slimebeast said:
Kamal said:
Slimebeast said:

I am all for Israel taking the whole of Jerusalem and keeping it as their undivided capital until the end of time.

Jerusalem belongs to Jews only.

Ermmm how? Please elaborate?

 

With that logic the indigenous white are the supreme rulers of this country. Such a extreme and irrational statement.

It's simple. Just like London belongs to the English or Berlin belongs only to the Germans and Paris belongs only to the French.

Of course it's okay for the Arabs to keep living in Jerusalem, but the city should belong to and be governed by the Jewish state of Israel. And Arabs in Jerusalem can only voice their opinion through the institutions in the Israeli society.

If you're talking about ethnic self-determination, that rather goes against your argument. The Jews, at least in modern times, arrived in Israel artificially. Granted, the Palestinians (being of Arab ethnicity), injected themselves there as well, but they have a sizable head-start of 1200 years or so.

 

Do the Jews have the right to a homeland? It's a tough academic question, since they would have to supplant a native people wherever they could go. If we take an absolute "a land belongs to its people" approach, Jews have no-where to go that they could legitimately call their home (at least, call their home exclusively)

The Jews have been in Israel and Jerusalem continuously for three thousand years. The majority of Jews were once cast out of Israel unfairly.

Of course the Jews have right to a homeland, and that land is Israel.

but WHY though? becuase of what? history? okay, but why 3,000 years ago for that land and 1,000 years ago for London?