By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - America - Britain at fault for Islamic extremism

Senior policymakers in the United States said the attempted suicide bomb attack by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, who is thought to have become radicalised in London, was further evidence that one of the biggest threats to US security came from Britain, where the capital has been dubbed “Londonistan” by critics.

Daniel Pipes, a scholar on radical Islam and former adviser to Rudolph Giuliani during his presidential campaign, said: “The UK is a menace to the outside world. It’s been a problem for years now. This is just one more example.”

“The fact is there is no shame in aggressively interrogating terrorists or treating them as enemy combatants as opposed to criminals. What was attempted in Detroit, what was done to you on the London Underground, these were not crimes, they were acts of war.”

As a result, al-Qaeda had “worked much harder to get Westerners, people who live in the West, who may be citizens of the West” to become recruits and train in places like the tribal areas of Pakistan and Yemen. “The British have the most immediate and serious problem.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6913572/Americans-blame-Britain-for-rise-of-Islamic-extremism.html 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the article i have taken out a few key paragraphs in case you don't fancy reading it all, the infomation in whole can be found from the link above.

I can see with my own eyes that the problem of Islamic extremism is increasing throughout Britain, hatred is growing perhaps unsuprisingly with the events to combat terror in Afghanistan/Iraq. Over recent years there have been more cases of "British" citizens resorting to these digusting ways. However, what i want to know is how you think Britian can combat the growing problem of Islamic extremism within Britain? 

Is Amercica right to blame Britain for the increase in terrorism?



Around the Network

This is a VERY thorny issue...

Some people would like to ban immigration, some others blame the occidental countries because they oppress the Islamic culture (which I think is true in some cases), hence Islamists have the "right" to counterattack...

The difference lies in that some cultures deffend their values within their own countries in a pacific way, but some other cultures seem prone to be more aggressive towards other countries, including terrorist acts. With respect to this, I not only criticize this internal trend within Islamism, but also those supposedly advanced and peaceful occidental cultures and countries that frequently put their "friendly military feet" in other countires.

I don't think that the British government will do something to erase the problem, since the "politically correct" solutions based in dialogue and communication don't seem to work with extremists who think that have the right to spread terror in the world just because they feel offended all the time. It's always like a war, to them.



"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

Baroque_Dude said:
This is a VERY thorny issue...

Some people would like to ban immigration, some others blame the occidental countries because they oppress the Islamic culture (which I think is true in some cases), hence Islamists have the "right" to counterattack...

The difference lies in that some cultures deffend their values within their own countries in a pacific way, but some other cultures seem prone to be more aggressive towards other countries, including terrorist acts. With respect to this, I not only criticize this internal trend within Islamism, but also those supposedly advanced and peaceful occidental cultures and countries that frequently put their "friendly military feet" in other countires.

I don't think that the British government will do something to erase the problem, since the "politically correct" solutions based in dialogue and communication don't seem to work with extremists who think that have the right to spread terror in the world just because they feel offended all the time. It's always like a war, to them.


I do see your point. However, is it up to the natives to accept the immigrants beliefs or the other way around?

Also i fully agree with your last Paragraph. Political correctness seems to have gone out of control, how has it got into this state and is there a way to eradicate this problem?

Just trying to crete discussion as i don't think many people understand how big a problem this is/potentially could be.



If you want to combat Islamic extremism in the UK, how about not letting in immigrants from countries that have a lot of Islamic extremism (such as Pakistan, Iraq, etc.)? There are plenty of countries with people who have high birth rates and are willing to work for cheap wages but aren't overcome with Islamic extremism, so let them in.



 

 

MontanaHatchet said:
If you want to combat Islamic extremism in the UK, how about not letting in immigrants from countries that have a lot of Islamic extremism (such as Pakistan, Iraq, etc.)? There are plenty of countries with people who have high birth rates and are willing to work for cheap wages but aren't overcome with Islamic extremism, so let them in.

There are over 500,000 people of Pakistani origin in the UK, regardless of the future immigration into the country that figure will rise sharply (Due to birth rates as you mentioned)  I feel theres very little that can be done when it comes to this situation. Many choose Britain over other countries as it is their best option (financially and otherwise) Also we are a very liberal nation under the current government and i would be shocked if they refused people passage to this country. Recently a convicted preacher of hatred was allowed to stay.

Aswell as that, a large number of the Iraqis are refugees and we are left with no choice but to accept them. The government feels an obligation to accpet them likely becasue we partly casued their situation. Me personally, i think immigration into Britain now should be restricted to the EU only. It is well known that the country is overpopulated and the situation is getting worse. Rising unemployment is leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of the population as a large amount of foreign workers are taking the jobs.

Its a tricky situation and Britian is going to be facing many many more problems in the future.

 



Around the Network
FootballFan said:
Baroque_Dude said:
This is a VERY thorny issue...

Some people would like to ban immigration, some others blame the occidental countries because they oppress the Islamic culture (which I think is true in some cases), hence Islamists have the "right" to counterattack...

The difference lies in that some cultures deffend their values within their own countries in a pacific way, but some other cultures seem prone to be more aggressive towards other countries, including terrorist acts. With respect to this, I not only criticize this internal trend within Islamism, but also those supposedly advanced and peaceful occidental cultures and countries that frequently put their "friendly military feet" in other countires.

I don't think that the British government will do something to erase the problem, since the "politically correct" solutions based in dialogue and communication don't seem to work with extremists who think that have the right to spread terror in the world just because they feel offended all the time. It's always like a war, to them.


I do see your point. However, is it up to the natives to accept the immigrants beliefs or the other way around?

Also i fully agree with your last Paragraph. Political correctness seems to have gone out of control, how has it got into this state and is there a way to eradicate this problem?

Just trying to crete discussion as i don't think many people understand how big a problem this is/potentially could be.


"However, is it up to the natives to accept the immigrants beliefs or the other way around?" Theoretically, we must respect all beliefs while they don't represent something harmful for us, so that can't be answered in a simple way.

"I think that I don't think."

- Soli Deo Gloria -

The FUTURE is the FUTURE. Now... B_E_L_I_E_V_E!

From my own viewpoint its not Islam thats the problem in terrorism, its religion as a whole. It leads to some people have vastly different views which causes conflict and tensions within its self. It can also casue segregation, such as certain relgion zones and many people within these zones feeling alienated by the prospect of isolation.

In the way the holy scriptures are presented, it leaves for readers interpretation on the world, this is obviously dangerous and it can contibute to the cause of extremism from all religions.



FootballFan said:
MontanaHatchet said:
If you want to combat Islamic extremism in the UK, how about not letting in immigrants from countries that have a lot of Islamic extremism (such as Pakistan, Iraq, etc.)? There are plenty of countries with people who have high birth rates and are willing to work for cheap wages but aren't overcome with Islamic extremism, so let them in.

There are over 500,000 people of Pakistani origin in the UK, regardless of the future immigration into the country that figure will rise sharply (Due to birth rates as you mentioned)  I feel theres very little that can be done when it comes to this situation. Many choose Britain over other countries as it is their best option (financially and otherwise) Also we are a very liberal nation under the current government and i would be shocked if they refused people passage to this country. Recently a convicted preacher of hatred was allowed to stay.

Aswell as that, a large number of the Iraqis are refugees and we are left with no choice but to accept them. The government feels an obligation to accpet them likely becasue we partly casued their situation. Me personally, i think immigration into Britain now should be restricted to the EU only. It is well known that the country is overpopulated and the situation is getting worse. Rising unemployment is leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of the population as a large amount of foreign workers are taking the jobs.

Its a tricky situation and Britian is going to be facing many many more problems in the future.

 

To the bolded: This is becomming less of an issue because now even the immigrants are realising there are no jobs in the UK due to how hard the recession has hit our country, and go home. But I would argue a significant number of people with a "bitter taste" in their mouthes are actually just plain lazy. I know of quite a few people who just scrounge off the government with their benefits and show minimal effort when it comes to finding a job. Not saying everyone is like that (far from it), but a good number are just plain benefit cheats.

OT: You could argue that it's American foreign policy and the UK following the US that's resulted in the sudden rise of extremism in the UK. What's scary for me is that this latest idiot was at my university, studied in the same building my lab & office are in and was president of the Islamic society. I know plenty of muslims (at Uni) and whilst they may have a dislike for US foregin policy, not one of them share the views of this terrorist. However, it's left me quite bewildered as you'd think someone would pick up on his extremism, especially if he was President of the Islamic society.

Anyone else at a UK uni and noticed any possible extremism?



Scoobes said:
FootballFan said:
MontanaHatchet said:
If you want to combat Islamic extremism in the UK, how about not letting in immigrants from countries that have a lot of Islamic extremism (such as Pakistan, Iraq, etc.)? There are plenty of countries with people who have high birth rates and are willing to work for cheap wages but aren't overcome with Islamic extremism, so let them in.

There are over 500,000 people of Pakistani origin in the UK, regardless of the future immigration into the country that figure will rise sharply (Due to birth rates as you mentioned)  I feel theres very little that can be done when it comes to this situation. Many choose Britain over other countries as it is their best option (financially and otherwise) Also we are a very liberal nation under the current government and i would be shocked if they refused people passage to this country. Recently a convicted preacher of hatred was allowed to stay.

Aswell as that, a large number of the Iraqis are refugees and we are left with no choice but to accept them. The government feels an obligation to accpet them likely becasue we partly casued their situation. Me personally, i think immigration into Britain now should be restricted to the EU only. It is well known that the country is overpopulated and the situation is getting worse. Rising unemployment is leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of the population as a large amount of foreign workers are taking the jobs.

Its a tricky situation and Britian is going to be facing many many more problems in the future.

 

To the bolded: This is becomming less of an issue because now even the immigrants are realising there are no jobs in the UK due to how hard the recession has hit our country, and go home. But I would argue a significant number of people with a "bitter taste" in their mouthes are actually just plain lazy. I know of quite a few people who just scrounge off the government with their benefits and show minimal effort when it comes to finding a job. Not saying everyone is like that (far from it), but a good number are just plain benefit cheats.

OT: You could argue that it's American foreign policy and the UK following the US that's resulted in the sudden rise of extremism in the UK. What's scary for me is that this latest idiot was at my university, studied in the same building my lab & office are in and was president of the Islamic society. I know plenty of muslims (at Uni) and whilst they may have a dislike for US foregin policy, not one of them share the views of this terrorist. However, it's left me quite bewildered as you'd think someone would pick up on his extremism, especially if he was President of the Islamic society.

Anyone else at a UK uni and noticed any possible extremism?

There are still more immigrants entering the country than leaving and the birth rate is still on the rise. I agree with you, a large amount of people make it there main aim to not find a job and the lack of employment is a good excuse. However, the government needs to take more responsibility and either reduce benefits or give people an incentive to GET a job.

This country has many factors completly wrong however, regardless of how the Muslims feel about Amercian or British foreign policy is gives them no rights to practise this hatred. I would also question why they are in this country in the first place if it is clear they show little regard for it.



I can fully understand why America is losing patience with Britain. After all, it was these 3 Brits who attempted to blow up transatlantic flights.

http://blog.taragana.com/law/2009/09/07/3-british-muslims-convicted-of-plot-to-blow-up-trans-atlantic-jets-with-liquid-explosives-11956/

This is just one incident from a long list of terror plots by people born and bred in Britain targetting America. We must be one of their main threats as alot of the terrorists are from our land.