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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I beat Spirit Tracks. My thoughts (and SPOILERS)

Helios said:

I was thinking of writing a more comprehensive criticism myself, but for now I'm just going to bullet point it.

The final battle... I had the same problems as you. Let's just leave it at that.

However, I also had a lot of other issues with the game.

Like, why is nearly every facet of the final act derivative of one or more of the previous games? I find it a bit silly to fight a boss that looks like TP Ganon but is fought like TWW Ganondorf. Also, what's Nintendo's deal with main characters being possessed by evil demons as of late?

Furthermore, the game's ostensibly linear structure bothered me. Though it is not really worse than previous titles in the series, it is the first Zelda that is literally on-rails. It's like a dungeon crawler with a minigame between temples to break up the monotony. I was expecting something with a little more depth than that. Aonuma's original idea of creating the layout of the tracks would have been a great way to add some depth and variety to the game.

Another thing, I was hoping they would really make the most of having Zelda as your accomplice, but no. The train rides would have been a perfect time to build on the relationship between Link and Zelda, but instead she is simply reduced to the task of a lookout. I don't think it was all bad - there are some interesting things about her naive and self-indulgent nature as a child ruler - but I feel Phantom Hourglass was far better written, with a much more intriguing cast of characters. Perhaps the lack of Hidemaro Fujibayashi as writer/assistant director is to blame for this.

Naturally there was a lot I liked about the game. Many small improvements over PH. Overall though, there is no doubt in my mind which is the stronger game, and the sequel does not fare too well by my standards.

I feel comfortable disagreeing on that last spoiler paragraph in particular



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Khuutra, I respect you, so could you please indulge me in what ways you thought Zelda was given justice in this game. What non-standard character development - beyond her involvement with the horribly clichéd subplot of Staven's - was there?

Also, in what way is "The weather is cold... Or so I would have thought if I had my body!" not just downright poor writing?



Helios said:

Khuutra, I respect you, so could you please indulge me in what ways you thought Zelda was given justice in this game. What non-standard character development - beyond her involvement with the horribly clichéd subplot of Staven's - was there?

Also, in what way is "The weather is cold... Or so I would have thought if I had my body!" not just downright poor writing?

This is about that time I independently arrived at the Hero's Shade = Hero of Time thing, isn't it

Anyway

Staven is the EU name of Byrne, right? Or am I forgetting something/someone? Forgive me, my memory is shot at the moment (need my vitamins)



Khuutra said:
Helios said:

Khuutra, I respect you, so could you please indulge me in what ways you thought Zelda was given justice in this game. What non-standard character development - beyond her involvement with the horribly clichéd subplot of Staven's - was there?

Also, in what way is "The weather is cold... Or so I would have thought if I had my body!" not just downright poor writing?

This is about that time I independently arrived at the Hero's Shade = Hero of Time thing, isn't it

Anyway

Staven is the EU name of Byrne, right? Or am I forgetting something/someone? Forgive me, my memory is shot at the moment (need my vitamins)

I remember that discussion, but... I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

As for Staven, he's the traitor Locomo.



Helios said:
Khuutra said:
Helios said:

Khuutra, I respect you, so could you please indulge me in what ways you thought Zelda was given justice in this game. What non-standard character development - beyond her involvement with the horribly clichéd subplot of Staven's - was there?

Also, in what way is "The weather is cold... Or so I would have thought if I had my body!" not just downright poor writing?

This is about that time I independently arrived at the Hero's Shade = Hero of Time thing, isn't it

Anyway

Staven is the EU name of Byrne, right? Or am I forgetting something/someone? Forgive me, my memory is shot at the moment (need my vitamins)

I remember that discussion, but... I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

As for Staven, he's the traitor Locomo.

Ah, I see. He's called Byrne in the States version of the game. Can't imagine why they gave him two different names.

The thing about referring to her as "Zelda" in this context and whether or not she was done "justice" is that it's kind of counter-intuitive, because this is not the same Zelda as we're used to dealing with in the past, and this is established fairly early on. She's not anything like her grandmother, Tetra, nor is she like the "noble sacrifice" Zelda of Twilight Princess, or the "oh shit I just destroyed EVERYTHING" Zelda of Ocarina of Time. Each of them are their own characters, and we have to have different expectations of how each of them is going to be portrayed.

Do I think they did justice to the character? Well, that's hard to say. I didn't go into this with any particular expectations of how this Zelda should behave, so instead of thinking "Zelda should not behave this way," I mostly went "Haha! This is indeed a refreshing take on this archetype!"

When we talk about non-standard character development we have to keep in mind that we're talking about non-standard as far as Zeldas go, not the games but the characters, and in order to properly reference that we have to consider who this Zelda is. And that's the fun thing about her: she is a princess. She's not a pirate (WW/PH), she's not a queen (TP), she's not a tomboy (OoT), she's a flat-out girly-as-can-be princess whose cowardice is one of the early defining points of her character. She's absolutely terrified of dangers that can't touch her, as if her expectations of sensation override the fact that she doesn't feel anything (like how she refers to Phantom suits as being "hot" on the inside but mentions that she doesn't feel anything when she walks through magma, or how she mentions that she feels cold in the snow - but then, wait, no she doesn't, she just expected to). This Zelda is interesting to me because the growth of her character, as it's outlined in the first cutscene in the Tower of Spirits, lies in the direction of finding her courage. She starts off as a princess who is so ineffectual that she can't freely walk around her own castle and who would ask a crippled woman to brave a dangerous tower for her, and ends as someone who grabs a demon king, who is about to explode, and tells her partner to run. "Don't worry about me, Link! Just get away from Malladus!"

That and I will be honest, I found her character equal parts charming and hilarious. The first cutscene in the Tower of Spirits, starting with her "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" is probably the funniest moment in the franchise to me, up to and including Link being launched out of a catapult in Wind Waker. Her rant about how Link was going to go kick some ass while she sat on her royal duff because that is what princesses do had me and my wife laughing quite a lot.

I think they did justice to her in making her her own charactr, and makignn her charming and funny. It was a light-hearted game and they gave her a light-hearted character to go along with it, but with a feminity that subverts expectations created by past iterations of the character.

As to the relationship between Link and Zelda.... I liked how they handled it. Small and subtle, with a lighter touch than that handling the relationship between TP Link and Midna (which, while good, also characterized Link perhaps too completely). From the beginning (Link blushing the first time he sees Zelda) to the end (Link charging into an explosion because he refuses to leave her, Link holding herh and after the battle is over) it managed to be light and sweet without being saccharine, which is what I think was called for.

I apologize if this was too long but I wanted to give a complete answer



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Don't worry, it was a satisfactory answer. But don't think those elements were lost on me, either. Remember, I mentioned that I thought Zelda's vanity and inexperience was one of the strong points of her character. However, my "problem" with Zelda is the fact that she is too stereotypical. Her character development is very "standard" in this sense, and that's what bothers me. Take note that I did not say it was poorly done, just not up to the level I expected. Of course, your point about the way Zelda approaches danger and let's her expectations dictate her actions - turning my example against me in the process - was an intriguing interpretation that I admit I had overlooked. Still, I would have liked it if Zelda shared with us a little more of herself, her life as a princess - that perhaps, is what I was expecting, more than anything.



Helios said:

Don't worry, it was a satisfactory answer. But don't think those elements were lost on me, either. Remember, I mentioned that I thought Zelda's vanity and inexperience was one of the strong points of her character. However, my "problem" with Zelda is the fact that she is too stereotypical. Her character development is very "standard" in this sense, and that's what bothers me. Take note that I did not say it was poorly done, just not up to the level I expected. Of course, your point about the way Zelda approaches danger and let's her expectations dictate her actions - turning my example against me in the process - was an intriguing interpretation that I admit I had overlooked. Still, I would have liked it if Zelda shared with us a little more of herself, her life as a princess - that perhaps, is what I was expecting, more than anything.

That's reasonable, and I have no argument to make with it.



The two things that impressed me about Spirit Tracks were the boss battles and difficulty. For a Zelda title it was considerably more difficult than the recent entries. The last time I struggled this much was with Majora’s Mask – which in my opinion was one of the hardest titles.

The one thing I really didn’t like was being confined to the spirit tacks. Even with the boat you could go wherever you wanted, I just felt like it removed the exploration. No little caves or hidden passages, just going from point A to B. I was hoping they’d bring back heart pieces too… but sadly not =(



Man, this thread's no fun with all the black and white bars...
Then again, thank you for them, I'll be playing the game real soon and don't want to know anything important about it in advance!



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I hated that the gameplay was slowwww