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Forums - Microsoft - Final Fantasy XIII 360 Losing 15GB

Badassbab on 22 December 2009

I also bought the PS3 for exclusive. So far bought the following-

R1, R2, R&C TOD, K2, U1, U2, LBP, MGS4, VC all for approx£120 second hand in mint condition. Very pleased.

Next on my list is-

R&C BC, R&C QFT, GOW Collection, GOW3, HR and maybe Infamous, MAG and will probably rent Heavenly Sword.

On PSN I have Wipeout HD inc Fury and soon will get Pixel Junk Shooter, Superstar Dust HD and Flower.

I will still get all the multiplats on the 360, there generally better technically (Batman, AC2 and Bayonetta for example) but some may make me change my mind such as this FF.






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twesterm on 22 December 2009
slowmo said:
Feylic said:

Show me where? All the hardware specs say 12X, they say nothing about dual layer. How am I being ignorant? I asked you to show me where, I would like to learn if I am wrong, but you refuse to show me. Anyways, some quick searching found me this, though I doubt you will look at it,

http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/optical-disk-drives/optical-disk-drives/SH-S223Q/BEBD/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec&fullspec=F

http://www.lge.com/ca_en/computer-products/optical-storage/LG-external-dvd-burner-GP08LU10.jsp

Those are two dvd drives that show the dual layer read speed is LESS than the specified read speed of the drive. Yes, it is not a 12X drive, but it gives an idea of how they work and this is much more credible than your bs.

Neither of those is the drives in the 360 and neither run custom firmaware designed for a console.  Come on where is your proof, all I say is supposition in those links with no basis of fact to prove your theory.  Like I said previously YOU made the claim of 8x read speed on DL, it's for you to prove not me.  Your "proof" isn't credible in the slightest and you're still talking bs yourself.

Really, you're the one that should need to prove your point if anyone does.  I don't know a lot about this kind of subject, but it seems like it's pretty widely accepted that even though a drive may be 12x, when it reads a dual layer it reads slower.

The 360 may have something special, but since that's beyond the norm it would make more sense for you to show that.  Feylic has already shown a good number of times his point even if the best examples are from a wiki.

That said, I'm still not sure if a dual layer BlueRay reads at half speed, I can't really find anything anywhere that says it does or doesn't.  Since it's widely accepted that reading a dual layer disc takes twice as long, it makes sense that reading a dual layer bluRay disc would take twice as long (and talking with someone else who knows more than I do help me get to that decision). 

Therefore, at least in FFXIII's case, the 360 version reads data quicker and there's not even any need for you to go and search for your proof.



 

slowmo on 22 December 2009
twesterm said:
slowmo said:
Feylic said:
 

Show me where? All the hardware specs say 12X, they say nothing about dual layer. How am I being ignorant? I asked you to show me where, I would like to learn if I am wrong, but you refuse to show me. Anyways, some quick searching found me this, though I doubt you will look at it,

http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/optical-disk-drives/optical-disk-drives/SH-S223Q/BEBD/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec&fullspec=F

http://www.lge.com/ca_en/computer-products/optical-storage/LG-external-dvd-burner-GP08LU10.jsp

Those are two dvd drives that show the dual layer read speed is LESS than the specified read speed of the drive. Yes, it is not a 12X drive, but it gives an idea of how they work and this is much more credible than your bs.

Neither of those is the drives in the 360 and neither run custom firmaware designed for a console.  Come on where is your proof, all I say is supposition in those links with no basis of fact to prove your theory.  Like I said previously YOU made the claim of 8x read speed on DL, it's for you to prove not me.  Your "proof" isn't credible in the slightest and you're still talking bs yourself.

Really, you're the one that should need to prove your point if anyone does.  I don't know a lot about this kind of subject, but it seems like it's pretty widely accepted that even though a drive may be 12x, when it reads a dual layer it reads slower.

The 360 may have something special, but since that's beyond the norm it would make more sense for you to show that.  Feylic has already shown a good number of times his point even if the best examples are from a wiki.

That said, I'm still not sure if a dual layer BlueRay reads at half speed, I can't really find anything anywhere that says it does or doesn't.  Since it's widely accepted that reading a dual layer disc takes twice as long, it makes sense that reading a dual layer bluRay disc would take twice as long (and talking with someone else who knows more than I do help me get to that decision). 

Therefore, at least in FFXIII's case, the 360 version reads data quicker and there's not even any need for you to go and search for your proof.


http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?post=2099929&page=34&postnum=5

That is a post by MikeB of all people admitting the 360 DVD drives were 16x drives for Single layer and then proceeding to admit it was more than likely they would perform the same as other 16x drives, hence they would read at 12x DL.  That is as close as we ever got to MikeB admitting how wrong he was on here.

Check this quote from a article on xbox-scene regarding a release of the firmware for the 360:

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=554672

For Xtreme 4.0A default backup Read Speed is same as original game disks 12x. When Original Game disk is booted, all subsequent backup loading will be at Quiet/Slow Read mode, Original Game disks are unaffected. Turn console off/on to reset back to Default backup read speed (12x). Quiet/Slow Read Speed is for quiet operation and/or cheap DVD+R DL media.

Finally the following page is a good read on the issue and its quite clear by the end of the conversation that the 360 drive does indeed read at 12x for DL games:

http://www.maxconsole.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-65317.html

 

I'll not go any further offtopic but I consider my point proven and not just bs.  I personally will take the word of c4eva (a guy who knows the 360 drive and firmware inside and out) over some nobody on a forum with an agenda to spread FUD.

P.S Not all directed at you Twestern, I just quoted you given your suggested I should post evidence of my own.



Feylic on 22 December 2009
twesterm said:
slowmo said:
Feylic said:
 

Show me where? All the hardware specs say 12X, they say nothing about dual layer. How am I being ignorant? I asked you to show me where, I would like to learn if I am wrong, but you refuse to show me. Anyways, some quick searching found me this, though I doubt you will look at it,

http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/optical-disk-drives/optical-disk-drives/SH-S223Q/BEBD/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec&fullspec=F

http://www.lge.com/ca_en/computer-products/optical-storage/LG-external-dvd-burner-GP08LU10.jsp

Those are two dvd drives that show the dual layer read speed is LESS than the specified read speed of the drive. Yes, it is not a 12X drive, but it gives an idea of how they work and this is much more credible than your bs.

Neither of those is the drives in the 360 and neither run custom firmaware designed for a console.  Come on where is your proof, all I say is supposition in those links with no basis of fact to prove your theory.  Like I said previously YOU made the claim of 8x read speed on DL, it's for you to prove not me.  Your "proof" isn't credible in the slightest and you're still talking bs yourself.

Really, you're the one that should need to prove your point if anyone does.  I don't know a lot about this kind of subject, but it seems like it's pretty widely accepted that even though a drive may be 12x, when it reads a dual layer it reads slower.

The 360 may have something special, but since that's beyond the norm it would make more sense for you to show that.  Feylic has already shown a good number of times his point even if the best examples are from a wiki.

That said, I'm still not sure if a dual layer BlueRay reads at half speed, I can't really find anything anywhere that says it does or doesn't.  Since it's widely accepted that reading a dual layer disc takes twice as long, it makes sense that reading a dual layer bluRay disc would take twice as long (and talking with someone else who knows more than I do help me get to that decision). 

Therefore, at least in FFXIII's case, the 360 version reads data quicker and there's not even any need for you to go and search for your proof.

Thank you Twesterm. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I just want to know, and I mainly just want to stop the spread of the clear cut message that the "360 drive is faster than ps3 drive" . It may very well be faster on average, but to say the bluray drive is slow is just wrong.

Now, as for the bluray dual layer reading slower, I am sure you are quite right, and for FFXIII the 360 may very well read faster.



slowmo on 22 December 2009

I never said that Bluray was slow, please understand I just get tired of reading the same misinformation regarding the 360 DVD drive read speed. In terms of at its fastest and indeed on average the 360 drive is faster but in certain rare circumstances the Bluray drive on the PS3 will read quicker than the 360's drive. This isn't a slight against Bluray though which is already better than DVD now in terms of seek time and read speed with the faster drives, unfortunately the PS3 uses the older 2x drives as a baseline for performance which are still more than good enough for the job when optimised well and HDD caching is used properly.



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Feylic on 22 December 2009
slowmo said:
twesterm said:
slowmo said:
Feylic said:
 

Show me where? All the hardware specs say 12X, they say nothing about dual layer. How am I being ignorant? I asked you to show me where, I would like to learn if I am wrong, but you refuse to show me. Anyways, some quick searching found me this, though I doubt you will look at it,

http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/office/optical-disk-drives/optical-disk-drives/SH-S223Q/BEBD/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec&fullspec=F

http://www.lge.com/ca_en/computer-products/optical-storage/LG-external-dvd-burner-GP08LU10.jsp

Those are two dvd drives that show the dual layer read speed is LESS than the specified read speed of the drive. Yes, it is not a 12X drive, but it gives an idea of how they work and this is much more credible than your bs.

Neither of those is the drives in the 360 and neither run custom firmaware designed for a console.  Come on where is your proof, all I say is supposition in those links with no basis of fact to prove your theory.  Like I said previously YOU made the claim of 8x read speed on DL, it's for you to prove not me.  Your "proof" isn't credible in the slightest and you're still talking bs yourself.

Really, you're the one that should need to prove your point if anyone does.  I don't know a lot about this kind of subject, but it seems like it's pretty widely accepted that even though a drive may be 12x, when it reads a dual layer it reads slower.

The 360 may have something special, but since that's beyond the norm it would make more sense for you to show that.  Feylic has already shown a good number of times his point even if the best examples are from a wiki.

That said, I'm still not sure if a dual layer BlueRay reads at half speed, I can't really find anything anywhere that says it does or doesn't.  Since it's widely accepted that reading a dual layer disc takes twice as long, it makes sense that reading a dual layer bluRay disc would take twice as long (and talking with someone else who knows more than I do help me get to that decision). 

Therefore, at least in FFXIII's case, the 360 version reads data quicker and there's not even any need for you to go and search for your proof.


http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?post=2099929&page=34&postnum=5

That is a post by MikeB of all people admitting the 360 DVD drives were 16x drives for Single layer and then proceeding to admit it was more than likely they would perform the same as other 16x drives, hence they would read at 12x DL.  That is as close as we ever got to MikeB admitting how wrong he was on here.

Check this quote from a article on xbox-scene regarding a release of the firmware for the 360:

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=554672

For Xtreme 4.0A default backup Read Speed is same as original game disks 12x. When Original Game disk is booted, all subsequent backup loading will be at Quiet/Slow Read mode, Original Game disks are unaffected. Turn console off/on to reset back to Default backup read speed (12x). Quiet/Slow Read Speed is for quiet operation and/or cheap DVD+R DL media.

Finally the following page is a good read on the issue and its quite clear by the end of the conversation that the 360 drive does indeed read at 12x for DL games:

http://www.maxconsole.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-65317.html

 

I'll not go any further offtopic but I consider my point proven and not just bs.  I personally will take the word of c4eva (a guy who knows the 360 drive and firmware inside and out) over some nobody on a forum with an agenda to spread FUD.

P.S Not all directed at you Twestern, I just quoted you given your suggested I should post evidence of my own.

Well finally you show me something, why did it take someone elses coaxing?

Unfortunately MikeB's post doesn't show where he looked and I have seen drives using 12X. Your second link is discussed in the thread on your third link, and it still looked like it was up in the air whether the 360 read DL's at 12X. Funny thing is, even if they do, bluray 2x still runs faster than the dvd12x's slowest speed so it's still not a clear cut situation.

Oh, and why must you try to insult me in every post you make, does it make you feel better about yourself or something?



Feylic on 22 December 2009
slowmo said:
I never said that Bluray was slow, please understand I just get tired of reading the same misinformation regarding the 360 DVD drive read speed. In terms of at its fastest and indeed on average the 360 drive is faster but in certain rare circumstances the Bluray drive on the PS3 will read quicker than the 360's drive. This isn't a slight against Bluray though which is already better than DVD now in terms of seek time and read speed with the faster drives, unfortunately the PS3 uses the older 2x drives as a baseline for performance which are still more than good enough for the job when optimised well and HDD caching is used properly.

Well then maybe you should read the thread before posting... If you follow it back, the only reason I commented in here was because someone said the bluray drive is slower. I pointed out that, like you just said, there are cases when it is not.



Xoj on 22 December 2009
twesterm said:
smbu2000 said:
Vanbierk said:

Ps3 Version will look better....Anyone who doesn't think it will is kidding themselves....But...I understand people getting it for 360 just because that's either what they have or they like the controller more or it's just...more fun to watch the pretty arc-shaped lights in the front be green and not red.                                   

 

For me it will be the Ps3 version because I love playing RPGs with the Ps3 controller and I'm just sure it will look better on the Ps3, even if just the cinematics.

Does the controller really make that much of a difference when playing an RPG? It sure doesn't to me. I've played rpgs on my 360 and I'm currently playing FF13 on my newly purchased PS3, but the controller doesn't make any difference since it's an RPG! haha. I can understand for fps games/fighting games/racing games, etc. but an rpg...no not really.

Meh, controller is a pretty big deal to me.  It use to be achievements were the deciding factor but now since they both have those of some sort, it goes down to controller (and currently my PS3 not connecting BlueTooth devices half the time).

If I'm going to be holding the controller for hours, I'm going to want the one more comfortable.  As long as I don't need a huge precise use of the D-Pad, that's going to be the 360 for me.

u will need a working Dpad for certain mini games ;p



twesterm on 22 December 2009
Xoj said:
twesterm said:
smbu2000 said:
Vanbierk said:

Ps3 Version will look better....Anyone who doesn't think it will is kidding themselves....But...I understand people getting it for 360 just because that's either what they have or they like the controller more or it's just...more fun to watch the pretty arc-shaped lights in the front be green and not red.                                   

 

For me it will be the Ps3 version because I love playing RPGs with the Ps3 controller and I'm just sure it will look better on the Ps3, even if just the cinematics.

Does the controller really make that much of a difference when playing an RPG? It sure doesn't to me. I've played rpgs on my 360 and I'm currently playing FF13 on my newly purchased PS3, but the controller doesn't make any difference since it's an RPG! haha. I can understand for fps games/fighting games/racing games, etc. but an rpg...no not really.

Meh, controller is a pretty big deal to me.  It use to be achievements were the deciding factor but now since they both have those of some sort, it goes down to controller (and currently my PS3 not connecting BlueTooth devices half the time).

If I'm going to be holding the controller for hours, I'm going to want the one more comfortable.  As long as I don't need a huge precise use of the D-Pad, that's going to be the 360 for me.

u will need a working Dpad for certain mini games ;p

If it's a few mini-games, I don't care.  I'm mainly talking about things like Tetris. 



 

LordMatrix on 22 December 2009
Xoj said:
LordMatrix said:
HanzoTheRazor said:
The only people that will be buying it for the 360 are the ones that are fans of FF, own a 360 and have not yet prchaces a PS3.

I would not even consider getting it for my 360.

That is so NOT true! I know plenty of people who want it for their X360 and not because they don't own a damn PS3 either. Seriously!? What is is with this fanboy bullcrap? You obviously really like PS3 and that's fine but there are many out there like myself who do not prefer the PS3 over X360. 

If it comes out on X360I get it on X360 simply because it's my platform of choice. PS3 and Wii are good systems to but I use mine only when a good exclusive comes around that I am interested in. FF 13 will be just as good on X360 as it will be on PS3.

technically- nope, since ps3 uncompressed and one disc.

the only reason i see one getting  360 if because they want archivements. again ps3 have trophies

Man you couldn't be more wrong on that. Plenty of people want it for X360. Your a PS3 fanboy though so it makes sense you would think no one who has both systems would want it for X360. How about those that jsut prefer the X360 controler or those that just simply like the X360 WAY more than they liek the PS3 overall or how about those that want to buy it on the same system they know most there friends will likely purchase it on as well. These are all reasons that could make one choose the X360 version over the PS3 one. I do like achievements over trophies but my main reason for preordering it for X360 is because its my favorite system plain and simple.



 How our favorite systems are just like humans and sometimes have issues finding their special someone...

Xbox 360 wants to Kinect &  PS3 wants to Move!  Why are both systems having such relationship problems?  The reason is they both become so infactuated with desire while watching the Wii as it waggles on by. They simply want what they can't have.

 Official member of the Xbox 360 Squad