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Forums - PC - Microsoft ends 10 year fight with EU.

Kasz216 said:

Just like say, car radios. An analogy i keep making, yet everyone keeps ignoring for some reason.

I see the analogy, and I agree with it. If you want to bust a monopoly then this is the worst way to do it. I really don't understand the problem with having the default browser be IE anyways. It is not as if there is direct harm done to the user for using it.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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Kasz216 said:
Also, something i don't think you realize Werekitten.

Microsoft will still be shipping with IE. It will just shift with many other programs.

If the EU really cared about monopoly law. Instead, it would force Microsoft to not ship with ANY internet explorer and instead force people to go out and find their own.

They however did not go this route because... Internet browsers are an integral part of any modern operating system.


Just like say, car radios. An analogy i keep making, yet everyone keeps ignoring for some reason.

Actually not only I realize it, I even pointed it out to you in a previous post of mine - admittedly in an edit which you might have missed.

The point is exactly the importance of the browser, and making the choice known as such and simple for the non-savy user, because a more diversified market of browsers proved to be important for the net and in turn for the collectivity.

The monopoly legislation or the free market regulating itself, they are secondary items of discussion here. What counts is what helps or hinders the average, common internet end user.

This was a pragmatic, per-case deliberation that in my opinion goes in the right direction: people using computers as fundamental tools of their everyday life should be formed to know them better so that they are more free in the way they can affect the market as consumers.

Your radio analogy is silly, just drop it. The radio is not the most important part of a car and every car buyer knows what it is, what it does and that it can be swapped out for another model with different features or performance. The same can't be said of browsers and OSs.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:
Kasz216 said:
Also, something i don't think you realize Werekitten.

Microsoft will still be shipping with IE. It will just shift with many other programs.

If the EU really cared about monopoly law. Instead, it would force Microsoft to not ship with ANY internet explorer and instead force people to go out and find their own.

They however did not go this route because... Internet browsers are an integral part of any modern operating system.


Just like say, car radios. An analogy i keep making, yet everyone keeps ignoring for some reason.

Actually not only I realize it, I even pointed it out to you in a previous post of mine - admittedly in an edit which you might have missed.

The point is exactly the importance of the browser, and making the choice known as such and simple for the non-savy user, because a more diversified market of browsers proved to be important for the net and in turn for the collectivity.

The monopoly legislation or the free market regulating itself, they are secondary items of discussion here. What counts is what helps or hinders the average, common internet end user.

This was a pragmatic, per-case deliberation that in my opinion goes in the right direction: people using computers as fundamental tools of their everyday life should be formed to know them better so that they are more free in the way they can affect the market as consumers.

Your radio analogy is silly, just drop it. The radio is not the most important part of a car and every car buyer knows what it is, what it does and that it can be swapped out for another model with different features or performance. The same can't be said of browsers and OSs.

Actually, the same can be said with browsers.  It's actually easier to swap out a browser then a car.

Also, i'd disagree that "not everybody knows there are multiple web browsers".

How stupid do you think people are?

Most people know what google is right?  Didn't google do a bunch of advertising on google about google chrome? 

People know there are multiple web browsers.  They just don't feel like trying other ones out, because the one that comes with the machine is good enough.


Just how most people don't change the radio in their car because the radio in their car is good enough.

 

 



How is consumer ignorance a fault of Microsoft on this one though? Is the message here that competition does not need to bother advertising? Should we put a Burger King sign on the door of McDonald's?



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

loves2splooge said:

Wait a sec here. If M$ doesn`t bundle IE with their OS, then how the fuck are you supposed to download Firefox on your computer to install that? You need a pre-installed browser with your OS in order to download stuff from the web! You`d have to download Firefox from another computer, put it on a usb stick, copy it over and then install. What a pain that would be, especially for someone that doesn`t have ready access to two computers (I do but not everyone does). Even though I had Firefox installed on my old desktop, I was too lazy to boot it up and copy it over to a usb stick so I re-downloaded it from my new laptop (using IE. I barely touched IE after that) to get Firefox on my laptop.

This really is nanny state bs. The consumer can very well download Firefox, Opera, Google Chrome, Netscape or whatever they feel like, install that and just use that. That`s what I do. I use Firefox and VLC instead of IE and Windows Media Player.

It`s no wonder the Xbox is losing in Europe no matter what M$ does. Europeans are heavily biased against Microsoft to the point of unfairness (fining them $2.4b US? What`s wrong with this government?) I PREFER using Firefox to IE and I PREFER using VLC to Windows Media Player and you don`t see me whining about this software being bundled with my Windows Vista and 7. In fact I think it`s convenient that IE was pre-installed. Made getting Firefox on each of my computers when I bought them very convenient.

It isn't going to work that way. The original idea the EU had was this: When you get a new pc you have an option of I believe 7 browsers. You select one and that one is installed on your computer. Off course you can switch later on. If this is what is agreed on now, I honestly don't know.

Personally I think this isn't such a bad idea. There are good reasons for doing this, but I also think that they shouldn't force this just on Microsoft. Let it apply to others too.

P.S. I'm European and I don't have anything against Microsoft, nor do I know anyone who has anything against them.

 



My former account was HeSSeH, but I lost it. 

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Gnizmo said:
How is consumer ignorance a fault of Microsoft on this one though? Is the message here that competition does not need to bother advertising? Should we put a Burger King sign on the door of McDonald's?

Absolutely wrong analogy: you don't find McDonald's installed in your mouth and you actually have to go to it.And even if McDonald's is world leader for hamburgers, it isn't a monopolist and luckily for our arteries it's just a small minority of the wider and more important category of inexpensive food available in the world.

 



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
Gnizmo said:
How is consumer ignorance a fault of Microsoft on this one though? Is the message here that competition does not need to bother advertising? Should we put a Burger King sign on the door of McDonald's?

Absolutely wrong analogy: you don't find McDonald's installed in your mouth and you actually have to go to it.And even if McDonald's is world leader for hamburgers, it isn't a monopolist and luckily for our arteries it's just a small minority of the wider and more important category of inexpensive food available in the world.

 

So.  Your problem is that you have to use internet explorer for 5 minutes to download a new browser.



Kasz216 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Gnizmo said:
How is consumer ignorance a fault of Microsoft on this one though? Is the message here that competition does not need to bother advertising? Should we put a Burger King sign on the door of McDonald's?

Absolutely wrong analogy: you don't find McDonald's installed in your mouth and you actually have to go to it.And even if McDonald's is world leader for hamburgers, it isn't a monopolist and luckily for our arteries it's just a small minority of the wider and more important category of inexpensive food available in the world.

 

So.  Your problem is that you have to use internet explorer for 5 minutes to download a new browser.

Not my problem, but it's also my problem having to waste time and open another browser to install MS patches. It's also my problem that the years before FF, the excessive IE share made possible to fill the net of web pages following MS modified versions of standards, so it's in my interest that this can't happen anymore.

Now, if the EU makes mandatory to offer OS as optional (and providing also install discs for people not liking preinstallation) and specifying its separate price, I'll be even happier.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:

Absolutely wrong analogy: you don't find McDonald's installed in your mouth and you actually have to go to it.And even if McDonald's is world leader for hamburgers, it isn't a monopolist and luckily for our arteries it's just a small minority of the wider and more important category of inexpensive food available in the world.

 

If that were the real complaint then you would still be outraged. Safari is the only browser installed by default on Macs. iTunes is the only real way to sync songs onto your iPod. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony all have complete control over everything released on their platforms. Double standards are stupid, and wrong. Apply the same standard for everyone, or let everyone do what they please.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Alby_da_Wolf said:

Not my problem, but it's also my problem having to waste time and open another browser to install MS patches. It's also my problem that the years before FF, the excessive IE share made possible to fill the net of web pages following MS modified versions of standards, so it's in my interest that this can't happen anymore.

Now, if the EU makes mandatory to offer OS as optional (and providing also install discs for people not liking preinstallation) and specifying its separate price, I'll be even happier.

Because Apple is such a new, and young upstart that has not had an alternative available for decades.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229