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Forums - Nintendo - Igarashi: DS the only platform in which it's acceptable to publish 2-D games

Kenryoku_Maxis on 15 December 2009
Kasz216 said:
Plat formers being a big one, since 3D plat formers STILL don't come near the control perfection of a Mario brothers game.

The problem with that statement is that 3D Platformers and 2D Platformers are developed totally differently.  Looking at the Mario series as a good example, 2D mari games, such as New Super Mario Bros Wii, plays totally different than a 3D Mario, such as Mario Galaxy.  They have different objectives, level design and, because of their layout (2D or 3D), entirely different controls and layout.  That's what seperates good 2D and 3D games and why the Mario games have become a benchmark for platformers in both the 2D and 3D fields.

This is also why the games IGA makes are bad.  Because essentially the 3D Castlevania games IGA made were just clones of Symphony of the Night, as he always makes, but thrown into a 3D world.  And as a result we got horrible controls, repetative level designs and objectives which felt drawn out and forced.  But all these things would feel right at home and even fun in a 2D game, where repetative exploration based gameplay and precise action based attacks are commonplace.



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Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009

Actually you can have diversity with 2D games, just look at the NES and SNES and handhelds, and only one 3D Zelda has ever passed 2D Zelda.

Its more profitable to make games 2D, you can have more diversity and more games out in a year with 2D, and sales will be on par or even better than 3D, so yeah 3D is pointless



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Khuutra on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Actually you can have diversity with 2D games, just look at the NES and SNES and handhelds, and only one 3D Zelda has ever passed 2D Zelda.

Its more profitable to make games 2D, you can have more diversity and more games out in a year with 2D, and sales will be on par or even better than 3D, so yeah 3D is pointless

Avinash, the first Zelda is not a proper metric here. It outsold every other 2-D Zelda by 30%, minimum. The 3D vs. 2D sales battle is roughly even, except that Twilight Princess tilts it in favor of 3D



Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
c0rd said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

No it didn't, Zelda 1 sold more than TP, TP on Wii and GCN sold 6.94 million combined, which would be less than LoZ 1 sales on NES, GBA and VC combined.

So I didn't change the definition, only one 3D zelda OoT, has had any chance of beating 2D zelda, and none since, not really a shining example of 3D superiority, lol

There's no shining example of 2D superiority, either.

Face it, Zelda has been at its biggest when it moved to 3D. Probably the best example we have is Virtual Console - guess what the top selling Zelda is? Even at double the price, Ocarina of Time beats out the original Legend of Zelda.

As for the other 2D games, Adventure of Link and Link to the Past, they are outdone by Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, respectively. 3D Zelda has sold better than 2D, and they manage to do so with smaller userbases. This is a fact.


As for taking multiple "FF6's" over Uncharted 2 or Super Mario Galaxy, I think that's a little misleading. I doubt it's easy to pump out AAA 2D titles like NSMB Wii. Sure, it'll be faster than the 3D titles, but it's probably been grossly exaggerated in this thread.

Anyway, in the end, Nintendo would be best suited between a balance between 2D and 3D, and releasing a larger variety of games. They can still make another 2D Donkey Kong, I'm sure that would perform well. Zelda and Metroid peaked at 3D, though. I know you (Avinash) seem to agree with Malstrom stuff, and well, even he thinks Zelda would be best 3D (with a more arcade-combat focus).

Well on this I disagree with Malstrom, anyways, Zelda 1 passed TP, and Link's awakening passed Wind Waker.  So the sales are comparable between  2D and 3D, and TP has been on a very large userbase, moreso than LOZ 1, so the issue isn't userbase, and its not sales, since as we've seen the pinnacle of sales was OoT, yes, but no3D zelda has been able to match, yet costs are higher, so why keep trying to chase the dragon with more expensive games, when you can get as good or even better sales with the cheaper 2D.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Khuutra on 15 December 2009

Avinash

Twilight Princess outsold Legend of Zelda

On a smaller userbase



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Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Actually you can have diversity with 2D games, just look at the NES and SNES and handhelds, and only one 3D Zelda has ever passed 2D Zelda.

Its more profitable to make games 2D, you can have more diversity and more games out in a year with 2D, and sales will be on par or even better than 3D, so yeah 3D is pointless

Avinash, the first Zelda is not a proper metric here. It outsold every other 2-D Zelda by 30%, minimum. The 3D vs. 2D sales battle is roughly even, except that Twilight Princess tilts it in favor of 3D


  No OoT is the best argument for 3D, but TP proves the flaw in 3D Zelda, no 3D Zelda will ever equal OoT, but you can be sure TP was more expensive than OoT, and much more than LttP or LOZ 1, for less sales than LOZ 1 and only a bit more than LttP



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Strategyking92 on 15 December 2009

What a load of bull. 2D games do just fine on iPhone and the xbla and PSN services.



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Khuutra on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Khuutra said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Actually you can have diversity with 2D games, just look at the NES and SNES and handhelds, and only one 3D Zelda has ever passed 2D Zelda.

Its more profitable to make games 2D, you can have more diversity and more games out in a year with 2D, and sales will be on par or even better than 3D, so yeah 3D is pointless

Avinash, the first Zelda is not a proper metric here. It outsold every other 2-D Zelda by 30%, minimum. The 3D vs. 2D sales battle is roughly even, except that Twilight Princess tilts it in favor of 3D

  No OoT is the best argument for 3D, but TP proves the flaw in 3D Zelda, no 3D Zelda will ever equal OoT, but you can be sure TP was more expensive than OoT, and much more than LttP or LOZ 1, for less sales than LOZ 1 and only a bit more than LttP

I'm sorry, did you forget that Twilight Princess is sitting at like 7.2 million sold? Did that escape you?

There's nothing saying that TP was more expensive, in point of fact!

Phantom Hourglass is going to sell "a little bit more" than LttP. Twilight Princess destroyed it. Twilight Princess is going to sell "a little bit more" than Legend of Zelda.



Avinash_Tyagi on 15 December 2009
Khuutra said:
Avinash

Twilight Princess outsold Legend of Zelda

On a smaller userbase

Not if you include VC and GBA sales of LOZ 1 with the NES sales



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Khuutra on 15 December 2009
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Khuutra said:
Avinash

Twilight Princess outsold Legend of Zelda

On a smaller userbase

Not if you include VC and GBA sales of LOZ 1 with the NES sales

If you includ VC sales, then Ocarina of Time's gap with LOZ is even freaking bigger.