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Forums - Sales - Sony is going down the wrong path with their game development?

PS3 game developments take too much time and cost a lot of money. A high number of copies need to be sold to recoup the costs involved in developing the games. PS3 exclusive games in regards to sales have been hit and miss. Both Wii and 360 game developments take considerably less time and cost less money to develop than PS3 exclusive games. The number of copies of a given game needed to be sold on Wii or 360 is considerably less than a PS3 exclusive game.



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numonex said:
PS3 game developments take too much time and cost a lot of money. A high number of copies need to be sold to recoup the costs involved in developing the games. PS3 exclusive games in regards to sales have been hit and miss. Both Wii and 360 game developments take considerably less time and cost less money to develop than PS3 exclusive games. The number of copies of a given game needed to be sold on Wii or 360 is considerably less than a PS3 exclusive game.

Do you ust enter threads with predetermined word files that you copy and paste to slam sony's financials or do you really just not understand the basis of the threads subject matter? Honest question.



CGI-Quality said:
WilliamWatts said:
CGI-Quality said:

But, when looking at Xbox and PlayStation exclusives, they sell comparably. This is a misconception that I continue to see. Outside of key franchises, PlayStation franchises sell very much like Xbox exclusives, and vice versa. Also, very few 3rd Party titles sell like Assassin's Creed and such. Check the data.

I agree about local multiplayer but the games sell very similar when PS3 games don't have some of those features. For your perspective to hold much water, you have to explain what franchises have "underperformed" on PS3 that don't include local multiplayer and what franchises, besides Gears, that did exceptionally well on 360 that include the local multiplayer you speak of.

Excuse me, im confused. I don't remember mentioning the Xbox 360 or its exclusives. I couldn't personally name any as I don't own the system and I don't have any interest in games I cannot personally play. I didn't really know that Gears of War had local multiplayer until you mentioned it.

My point still is that theres a tendency for games which have a lot of playable content, whether its a huge open world sandbox or if it comes with local and especially local and online multiplayer which seem to dominate the top of the charts. Furthermore games which have these features in abundance tend to be less graphically intensive than games which do not. Whilst there are exceptions the general trends indicate that the best selling games have both local and online multiplayer and further to that they aren't the best graphical showpieces in general they do sell a lot. 

Since Sony's business is to sell games consoles, games, controllers etc. Why do they seem to focus on graphics at the expense of electing to use their developers to work on local and online multiplayer content when it seems that it earns them fewer sales especially as they have a piece of the controller pie as well?

What I'm saying is, for Sony's games to have "underperformed", as you're implying, you have to size them up against games that have comparable selling tendencies. The 360 is it's closest rival, so it's what you can compare it to. If you look at their exclusive franchises, they sell comparably, and if PS3 games are "underperforming", then how are 360 games doing?

I never said the games underperformed anywhere, I don't understand where you're getting this idea from? Is it from other people inside this topic?

Is the concept of comparing the top 20 general releases with the top 20 Sony releases and looking for trends in the placement of different titles not a good one? 

Since you're keen to go down that path I did a check of the top 10 Microsoft published games (these are all exclusives right?) 

  1. Halo 3
  2. Gears of War
  3. Gears of War 2
  4. Forza Motorsport 2
  5. Halo ODST
  6. Fable 2
  7. Mass Effect
  8. Project Gotham Racing 4
  9. Halo Wars
  10. Forza Motorsport 3

I think only three of them lack local multiplayer and they are Fable 2, Mass Effect and Halo Wars. Two of them also lack any significant online play and they are Fable 2 and Mass Effect from what I can gather from Wikipedia. None of the top 5 lack either local or online multiplayer. I think Halo 3 must have been bundled with every Xbox 360 in the U.S.A. because the sales there are silly compared to what Vgchartz calls the 'others' region so I guess that sort of should get taken into account. The further down the list you go the more likely the game seems to be completely single player in nature.

So does this not support my concept that Sony may have been better off if more of their big releases had both online and offline multiplayer modes? I feel I must repeat to make myself clear here that im not saying that the games underperformed on Sony's side at all. Im saying that more people might have instead purchased or kept ahold of their copies of games Sony personally released instead of trading or renting. 



I said no buts...Give me proof that states Gears is owned by MS since your so quick mentioning Gears in the MS 1st party list then what I ask shudnt be that hard to find NO?



XxXProphecyXxX said:
I said no buts...Give me proof that states Gears is owned by MS since your so quick mentioning Gears in the MS 1st party list then what I ask shudnt be that hard to find NO?

It's not, I already said Epic owns it.  I'm still trying to figure out how licensed IP makes something not "first party" though?

Copyrights

©2009 Epic Games, Inc., except underlying technology ©2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Trademarks

Gears of WarGears of War 2, the Crimson Omen logo, Marcus Fenix, Unreal, Epic Games and the Epic Games logo are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Epic Games, Inc., in the United States and/or elsewhere.

Microsoft, the Microsoft Game Studios logo, Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox LIVE, Windows, DirectX, and the Xbox logos are either registered trademarks or trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies.



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WilliamWatts said:
CGI-Quality said:
WilliamWatts said:
CGI-Quality said:

But, when looking at Xbox and PlayStation exclusives, they sell comparably. This is a misconception that I continue to see. Outside of key franchises, PlayStation franchises sell very much like Xbox exclusives, and vice versa. Also, very few 3rd Party titles sell like Assassin's Creed and such. Check the data.

I agree about local multiplayer but the games sell very similar when PS3 games don't have some of those features. For your perspective to hold much water, you have to explain what franchises have "underperformed" on PS3 that don't include local multiplayer and what franchises, besides Gears, that did exceptionally well on 360 that include the local multiplayer you speak of.

Excuse me, im confused. I don't remember mentioning the Xbox 360 or its exclusives. I couldn't personally name any as I don't own the system and I don't have any interest in games I cannot personally play. I didn't really know that Gears of War had local multiplayer until you mentioned it.

My point still is that theres a tendency for games which have a lot of playable content, whether its a huge open world sandbox or if it comes with local and especially local and online multiplayer which seem to dominate the top of the charts. Furthermore games which have these features in abundance tend to be less graphically intensive than games which do not. Whilst there are exceptions the general trends indicate that the best selling games have both local and online multiplayer and further to that they aren't the best graphical showpieces in general they do sell a lot. 

Since Sony's business is to sell games consoles, games, controllers etc. Why do they seem to focus on graphics at the expense of electing to use their developers to work on local and online multiplayer content when it seems that it earns them fewer sales especially as they have a piece of the controller pie as well?

What I'm saying is, for Sony's games to have "underperformed", as you're implying, you have to size them up against games that have comparable selling tendencies. The 360 is it's closest rival, so it's what you can compare it to. If you look at their exclusive franchises, they sell comparably, and if PS3 games are "underperforming", then how are 360 games doing?

I never said the games underperformed anywhere, I don't understand where you're getting this idea from? Is it from other people inside this topic?

Is the concept of comparing the top 20 general releases with the top 20 Sony releases and looking for trends in the placement of different titles not a good one? 

Since you're keen to go down that path I did a check of the top 10 Microsoft published games (these are all exclusives right?) 

  1. Halo 3
  2. Gears of War
  3. Gears of War 2
  4. Forza Motorsport 2
  5. Halo ODST
  6. Fable 2
  7. Mass Effect
  8. Project Gotham Racing 4
  9. Halo Wars
  10. Forza Motorsport 3

I think only three of them lack local multiplayer and they are Fable 2, Mass Effect and Halo Wars. Two of them also lack any significant online play and they are Fable 2 and Mass Effect from what I can gather from Wikipedia. None of the top 5 lack either local or online multiplayer. I think Halo 3 must have been bundled with every Xbox 360 in the U.S.A. because the sales there are silly compared to what Vgchartz calls the 'others' region so I guess that sort of should get taken into account. The further down the list you go the more likely the game seems to be completely single player in nature.

So does this not support my concept that Sony may have been better off if more of their big releases had both online and offline multiplayer modes? I feel I must repeat to make myself clear here that im not saying that the games underperformed on Sony's side at all. Im saying that more people might have instead purchased or kept ahold of their copies of games Sony personally released instead of trading or renting. 

Youre right in your assessment...probably i dont know to be honest.

But the most important thing to those games on the list are the franchises. 3 Halo games, 2 Gears games, 2 Forza games, 2 PGR games. The sales correlation is in regards to existing IP's sans ME and Gears 1. All the others had userbases on the origina Xbox.

Your argument, as its carried out, shows its franchise correlation not this online/local multiplayer stab in the dark for sales comparisons.



Ohh gr8 than MW2 is owned by sqare enix?



CGI-Quality said:
A_C_E said:
steverhcp02 said:
A_C_E said:
Some company's don't know how to move on to the next big thing. Sony isn't really doing anything revolutionary with their games in the online department and their marketing is way off. Their marketing for games sucks but now that they've found a sweet spot for the PS3 slim then maybe they'll find a sweet spot for their software as well but I doubt Sony will ever be able to sell very many 5 mil sellers for the rest of this gen.

I see lots of new successful IP's in the OP's list. That to me is the most important thing for a developer, especially a first party developer as a consumer.

Online is one aspect of development, but ill take good new IP's over 4 ratchet, games in 4 years with online play.

Also, lets not forget LBP, possibly the most revolutionary online game of this generation.

Ok here, some company's as a whole don't know how to move on to the next big thing, although I do see the 'Play, Create, Share' genre becoming massive for this and next generation so I'll give them that but overall as a company they are just so linear. Sure they offer great games and great new IP's which are important for a company but look at how they are selling. Sony is no MS when it comes to marketing but I know they have it in them to sell large amounts of software, they just haven't been doing that at all. Their only major title I see selling over 5 mil is GT5 and after that...what? RFoM? It's franchise is already on decline. KZ? KZ2 Hasn't reached 3 mil yet. LBP2? 1st hasn't reached 3 yet. Uncharted of all semi-hardcore franchises that are geared more towards casuals most likely won't even make it to 4 mil yet it's one of the most highest rated games of all time in a genre that is known to sell in the 10's of millions. There's a major problem for Sony to overcome. They've got great software just not enough juice to squeeze, somethings missing.

Tell me though, what franchise(s), outside of Gears and Halo, does Microsoft have that sell over 5mill? I keep hearing that Sony's games have a hrad tiime selling but then see no examples of 360 games that sell MUCH better?

- Crackdown - 1.52mill

- Fable II - 3.27mill

- PGR 4 - 1.85mill

- Left 4 Dead - 2.53mill

- Mass Effect - 2.10mill

Where are these HUGE selling 360 exclusives again? As I said, they perform very mcuh like PS3 games:

- Uncharted 1 - 2.79mill

- LBP - 2.74mill

- Killzone 2 - 2.14mill

- Resistance 2 - 1.73mill

Now, where are the major differences again between many of these IPs, I'll tell you:

Gears of War: Deserves a commendation, it did EXCEPTIONAL for a new IP.

Halo: Brand Name alone will, sell 5-6mill of these.

Gran Turismo: Look at the Prologue.

Take away the big guys and you have fracnhises that sell comparable #s on both. I think this idea that PS3 games "underperform" and 360 games sell so well is quite deluded.

 

I'm not directly comparing MS to Sony so much as Sony to Sony. The only comparison I have made towards MS is the marketing division which MS takes the take no doubt. MS doesn't need many first party titles to sell over 5 mil because they already have two franchises that are 'guaranteed' 5 mil sellers with each release, the ones you posted, Gears and Halo. But that's not the point I'm getting at. What I'm trying to figure out is why Sony just let's these amazing games get not even half the sales they deserve? Like I said, the PS3 has a problem when not even it's two biggest highly rated FPS's can't even top 4 mil, it's pathetic. They have to build towards a great online community where they ship their PS3's with mics and they have x-game chat and have an online experience unmatched by all, all in one FPS game. This is why Halo is so big today but Sony as a company just doesn't know how to pick up on these things. Sony as a company is so very linear and spend more time catching up then they do inventing, which is too bad because they have IMO the best line-up of 2010 but they won't get the sales they deserve.



Hus said:
jarrod said:
CGI-Quality said:
Legend11 said:
It's surprising how small the sales are for Sony's first-party games are compared to third-party. I mean the best selling first-party game is at 6 and it probably wouldn't even have gotten there if it wasn't for bundling and the fact it pretty much had zero competition when it came out.

Lol....again with this warped sense of thinking. Tell me, what 1st party exclusives, besides Halo, have done gangbusters on the 360? By that, I mean sold at least 5mill.

Gears 1-2.  Microsoft's top 5 (Halo 3, Gears, Gears 2, Fable II, ODST) would rank ahead of Sony's 1st (Resistance).  

They would untill Sonys GT comes and out ranks them all.

By the way other then Gears and Halo a 40$ demo of a Sony game out sold all other MS 1st party games this gen.

 

 

Hus, you really need to calm down, your posts is starting to sound like troll remarks.

As for CGI-Quality, you make a good argument over how people have over-shot their expectations of PS3 first party titles. The sales of first party titles of both HD consoles are similar if you average them out. However it has been a long time since a true iteration of Gran Turismo has come out, and sales numbers of Halo and Mario have been a bit intimidating to PS3 fans since there have been games from those franchises from recent years.



A_C_E said:

I'm not directly comparing MS to Sony so much as Sony to Sony. The only comparison I have made towards MS is the marketing division which MS takes the take no doubt. MS doesn't need many first party titles to sell over 5 mil because they already have two franchises that are 'guaranteed' 5 mil sellers with each release, the ones you posted, Gears and Halo. But that's not the point I'm getting at. What I'm trying to figure out is why Sony just let's these amazing games get not even half the sales they deserve?

Like I said, the PS3 has a problem when not even it's two biggest highly rated FPS's can't even top 4 mil, it's pathetic. They have to build towards a great online community where they ship their PS3's with mics and they have x-game chat and have an online experience unmatched by all, all in one FPS game. This is why Halo is so big today but Sony as a company just doesn't know how to pick up on these things. Sony as a company is so very linear and spend more time catching up then they do inventing, which is too bad because they have IMO the best line-up of 2010 but they won't get the sales they deserve.

The most successful console of all time in a generation where it had little to no competition for third party or 1st party titles sold a grand total of 25 total games over 4 million.

http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?page=1&results=50&name=&console=PS2&minSales=0&publisher=&genre=

Take a gander at the "first party" titles.

This argument is geting ridiculous with speculation and a false sense of reality in terms of sales numbers by using Halo and Gears as standards.