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Why do you resort to calling everyone who defends Other M for what it is a Sakamoto Cultist when you know it makes your argument against them seem really cheap?

Is it so hard for you to believe that there are actually people out there–Metroid fans!–who are excited about Other M and everything that has been shown so far (angsty cut scenes included), that you must insist that they are blind followers of some Sakamoto God?

I’m one of those so-called “cultists” who has e-mailed you about Other M in the past, and I was one of the commenters on that article on Jack Loftus’ blog. And honestly, I don’t give a flying crap about Yoshio Sakamoto. I respect him for what he’s done in the past, but my interest in Other M has little to do with him and everything to do with the games content: I actually care about Samus Aran’s back story! I care to learn more about the Baby Metroid (Metroid II is my favorite Metroid game, and Sakamoto had nothing to do with that one). I’m excited about the cut scenes, and I got into Metroid back with the very first game, when there was hardly any story.

It’s all well and good that you don’t like emphasis on story and Samus’ emotions. That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. But calling all these people who genuinely look forward to the game Sakamoto Cultists? That’s low.

You mentioned retiring this blog not too long ago. Will it be any time soon? I’d hate you see you become a laughingstock when Other M’s sales exceed the last two Prime games (actually Reggie himself said that it only needs to surpass Super Metroid’s sales to be a hit in their book).

Why is it that what I write bothers you? Why do you give me such power over your emotions? This is what I’ve never understood. I’ve probably pissed off every Nintendo fan due to writing about Mario and Zelda but none of them react as the Other M advocates have.

Let’s go through your email again in a more fine tooth comb:

Why do you resort to calling everyone who defends Other M for what it is a Sakamoto Cultist when you know it makes your argument against them seem really cheap?

If it is so cheap, why not just ignore me? The reason why I used the phrase ‘Sakamoto Cultist’ is because of the literal worship they give to the man. Now, this might be more understood if the man was Shigeru Miyamoto, but of Sakamoto?

Is it so hard for you to believe that there are actually people out there–Metroid fans!–who are excited about Other M and everything that has been shown so far (angsty cut scenes included), that you must insist that they are blind followers of some Sakamoto God?

I’m sure they are. But they are just as clueless about Metroid as those Zelda fans who thought trains in Spirit Tracks were ‘really cool’. As a gamer, you can be on the wrong side of the market. There are people who think the PSP Go is awesome when the market clearly doesn’t. I am sure, somewhere, perhaps in a place of unicorns and skittles raining from the sky, is someone who actually is excited for Kinect.

I’m one of those so-called “cultists” who has e-mailed you about Other M in the past, and I was one of the commenters on that article on Jack Loftus’ blog. And honestly, I don’t give a flying crap about Yoshio Sakamoto. I respect him for what he’s done in the past, but my interest in Other M has little to do with him and everything to do with the games content: I actually care about Samus Aran’s back story! I care to learn more about the Baby Metroid (Metroid II is my favorite Metroid game, and Sakamoto had nothing to do with that one). I’m excited about the cut scenes, and I got into Metroid back with the very first game, when there was hardly any story.

You’re one of the reasons why gaming is collapsing. If you think of the Metroid titles have a ‘story’, then you do not know what a story is. What you are doing is acting as an enabler for developers to put in elements into games that do not belong. They might see your message forum posts and go, “Oh boy, some people out there like this direction. Therefore, let us go with it.”

Sakamoto has been making Metroid games for your tastes for decades and where has this brought Metroid? Only into a steady decline. If it wasn’t for Metroid Prime, there wouldn’t have been much excitement of the Metroid series as there has been recently. Since your way hasn’t been working, of making Metroid games more about ‘Samus stories’, why not try it my way? Why not a full back-to-the-roots 2d Metroid game for the home console with no bloody cutscenes or storyline?

One of the reasons why Sakamoto’s direction is not working is because he is a member of the Cult of Creativity. He has stated, several times, that he needs to do things differently than Miyamoto. But the rub is what if Miyamoto’s games succeed not because of ‘creativity’ but because of how it resonates with Human Nature? This would mean by doing something the opposite of Miyamoto, just because, the game would be going contrary to Human Nature and would lead to poorer sales. Sakamoto’s creativity is the problem…


Above: Stupid

It’s all well and good that you don’t like emphasis on story and Samus’ emotions. That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. But calling all these people who genuinely look forward to the game Sakamoto Cultists? That’s low.

If you read the email that I responded to, it was someone accusing me of lying about something Sakamoto said. These same people have expressed a desire to punch me, to do other sorts of violence to me. It is that behavior of which I am responding to. You make it sound as if I am calling ‘cultists’ of anyone who may want to play Other M. I am labeling that crazy behavior as the cultists.

But why don’t your words apply to me? Why doesn’t my opinion count? After all, I am only writing my own stuff on my own personal website. Why are these other people getting pissed off at what I am saying on my own website?

Why is what I am saying hitting such a nerve?

You mentioned retiring this blog not too long ago. Will it be any time soon?

It will be very soon. But I am still going to come back and laugh at things like watching Kinect crash and burn. He he he.

I’d hate you see you become a laughingstock when Other M’s sales exceed the last two Prime games (actually Reggie himself said that it only needs to surpass Super Metroid’s sales to be a hit in their book).

1) Reggie never said that. He said they want to make Metroid more mainstream. In order to do that, the game needs to match or surpass the first Prime game’s sales.

2) There are three Prime games, not two. It has gotten so pathetic for the Sakamoto Cultists that they are pretending the first Metroid Prime does not exist and only wish to compare Other M to the sales of Prime 2 and Prime 3. Prime 2 appeared when the Gamecube was in massive decline and everyone was abandoning the system. Prime 3, actually a poor game in my opinion, also suffered from horrendous marketing. Nintendo’s 2007 core game marketing was so bad that when Mario Galaxy was published in Japan, the Japanese thought it was a party game. This is why Mario Galaxy initially sold so horrible when it was released in Japan. (Many people do not realize this including business websites who should know better. There is one business website in full orgasm that Mario Galaxy 2 was selling better than Galaxy 1 in launch aligned status. They had no idea how Galaxy 1 was so badly marketed in Japan and Galaxy 2 is being marketed much, much, much better [and Galaxy 2 is nowhere near the 2d Mario games... another failure of 3d Mario]).

If Other M is the ‘first real Metroid since Super Metroid’, according to Sakamoto, then surely it would eclipse NES Metroid and Metroid 2 sales due to the population increase and the much larger Wii install base. Other M should clearly clean Metroid Prime’s clock because Other M is on the massive Wii install base while Metroid Prime only had the puny Gamecube install base.

Even the Sakamoto Cultists know that Other M isn’t going to be the ‘big hit’ so they are already trying to frame the comparison between Prime 2 and Prime 3 (why stop there? Why not frame the comparison with Metroid Prime Pinball?). Any addition of Japanese sales alone would pop a title above Prime 2 and Prime 3 sales. But that definitely wouldn’t be a success.

What is really going to be fun is to compare Donkey Kong Country Returns with Metroid: Other M. God, it really does feel like 1994 again!

Anyway, the Sakamoto Cultists (not you, the emailer) need to get a hobby and need to stop being so emotional to what some anonymous person writes on their own personal blog.

 

Hi Malstrom,

Your previous emailer asks whether the Backstreet Boys are better than Iron Maiden under the ‘sales = quality’ mantra. To quote their concerned comment:

(Backstreet Boys are) ” Better, according to you, than bands like Iron Maiden, who still goes on tours and preform in front of millions of pepole, sell millions of albums every year, yet, their grand total of albums sold is less than The Backstreet Boys?”‘

I must say I agree with your respose:

“The answer is that the people decide what is the quality of a product. We know it has value because people give something they have of value to get it (their money). If they didn’t value it, people wouldn’t be paying for it.”

The thing is, your view and that of the emailer don’t cotradict each other on that point. As the emailer writes, people still buy millions of Iron Maiden albums each year, still go to see them play live and listen to their old music. I highly doubt that Backstreet Boys cds sell that well in comparison after their few years of ‘fame’. So it would seem to me that under that definition, which you both agree on, if more people appreciate something then that indicates it is ‘better’.

(That said, I think it is trivial to argue over who is better over Michael Jackson, Freddy Mercury or Elvis etc. But I would expect they can sing better than you or else you may have to start another career!).

So the cliffnotes version is that if something is popular, it will sell, but if something is genuinely good and popular, it will keep selling for a long time. That works for both Iron Maiden, Queen, Michael Jackson, Tetris and Super Mario Bros.

We were absolutely not talking the same things. The entire premise behind the reluctance of letting ‘better sales mean better quality’ is the idea that ‘sales’ defines quality.

Ebert has said that video games are not art, e.g. are not quality in comparison to movies. But this was said about movies not being seen as quality compared to literature and stage plays. Movies became defined by quality due to sales. It was sales of movies that eventually made it into quality.

Television was also not seen as ‘quality’ compared to movies. What changed it was sales. People enjoyed watching TV. This meant TV had some sort of quality.

Personally, I don’t know why someone would like Just Dance. But I know it is a quality game because people keep buying it. It is of value to someone. It becomes quality to someone.

There is much about Human Nature we do not understand. Quality cannot be some fixed definition. If something sells and keeps selling, we re-define quality. This is why I mentioned Shakespeare and Mark Twain because their work was not considered quality in the idea but their works became massively popular, not after they were dead, but while they were alive.

However, there are many cases when a work sells very strongly during the present and is completely forgotten about later on. Why is this? Well, we know it was quality at that time period. But during the next time period, it wasn’t considered quality.

It is no different than a game selling because of its ‘awesome graphics’ back in 1990 only to be seen as ‘trash’ in 2010. What was considered quality graphics in 1990 is not quality graphics in 2010.

This is why it is best for video games to target Human Nature instead of targeting computer technology. When you target computer technology, the product becomes obsolete as soon as computer technology changes. But if you target Human Nature, it remains eternal because Human Nature never changes.

 

1984

Arcade, NES, other platforms

(Someone stole my NES copy of this game and, over two decades later, I am still pissed off about it.)

How strange is it that a game of rolling marbles has a far superior soundtrack to 99% of every other game made!

 

After doing the Marble Madness music post, I thought why the simple little game was so much fun. The marbles rolling around and the ‘physics’ made it fun. The music made it fun. But Marble Madness was a simultaneous co-op NES game.

Part of the reason the Wii had huge success (and DS as well) is because of the local multiplayer. While Xbox 360 has games like Gears of War, it is safe to say most of the multiplayer in those games are over the Internet. Gamecube and N64 had four controllers that could play games like Mario Kart and Smash Brothers in fun little parties. But this is not the co-op gaming I am referring to.

Every console can point to some sort of co-op game. But looking at the broader picture, the NES comes out as the one who most seemed to embrace it. The SNES gravitated more toward single player adventure and RPG gaming. The Genesis, with its many arcade and sports games, did have tons of multiplayer but much of it was placed in the port (e.g. multiplayer in Street Fighter 2 because it was already part of the arcade game).

The Atari Era console games were too short for people to play with them co-op.

The NES is a different story. One thing I really liked about this time period was how a game console would not only come with a video game, it would come with multiple controllers (and hell, even a light gun). An old Miyamoto interview has him saying that the multiple controllers were to get people playing the console together, of games like Baseball, and Miyamoto wanted the game console to be approached that way (which would explain why multiple controllers were included in the box).

Most of the early NES games were very primitive (as you would expect). But I recall even back then, people were trying to play the games co-op. Even though Super Mario Brothers had one person play at a time, people would still play it together. People would even play Legend of Zelda together (!).

I recall the co-op NES games being extremely popular with players at the time. Here is a list of a few of them and tell me if, when remembering them, you get a smile:

-Bubble Bobble
-Contra
-Life Force
-Double Dragon 2
-Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2
-Marble Madness
-Battletoads
-Chip and Dale: Rescue Rangers
-Ikari Warriors
-River City Ransom
-Jackal
-Shadow of the Ninja
-Twin Bee
-Snake, Rattle, and Roll
-Spy VS Spy

And I haven’t even listed the sports games.

In the arcades, my favorite games were co-op video games. Many of the beat-em-ups were co-op, many of the ‘gun’ games were, and who didn’t love Gauntlet or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or X-Men?

Many game makers think a game has to either be single player or ‘party game’, and this is silly. Co-op games mean that you and a friend get to go through the adventure together.

I think co-op is one of the understated reasons why some games become big. Donkey Kong Country, unlike the 2d Mario games, embraced co-op gaming (in a limited fashion) as the two players gave each other control in the game.

People talk about World of Warcraft succeeding because it is an MMORPG. But looking at how people behave in the game, I think it is more of a co-op experience for people. The husband will play the game together with his wife. In a way, many MMORPG games end up becoming a ‘multi-co-op’ experience where it is multiple co-op experiences for a group of friends. If this is true, then one can create a similar experience to WoW without the expensive servers and online fees.

Most games have been reluctant to embrace co-op gaming. The HD twins do not even like local multiplayer. And keep in mind I am not referring to games like Smash Brothers or Mario Kart or Wii Sports with co-op gaming. These games are more or less people against one another.

But there is nothing like the family versus the game, and the family cheers itself on their progress through the game. The family gets together in anticipation of going further in the game. Games like Mario 5 should be revealing this behavior. But what games on the market that allow this behavior? Very, very few if any.

I still like my idea of a Wii game that uses motion plus controls (for various weapons like sword, bow and arrow, etc.) where a group of people adventure together through a dungeon or other bad area together, something not unlike Gauntlet. People would be working together, getting together, to progress through the game. It would transfer the ‘house party’ to the more serious gamers who have no reason to get together for LAN parties (because LAN is no more even with games like SC 2).

People playing games together is the strongest experience a video game can provide.

 


Above: A Distinguished Institute

In a little house on the prairie is the distinguished Malstrom School of Analysis. It is here where all the analysts go back to school.


Above: Malstrom is the head teacher. He teaches here in addition to being The Most Interesting Gamer in the World.

Malstrom lights a cigar and sits at the desk.

”Little analysts, before you to go off to recess, it is time for you to hand in your homework on the United States video game market of May 2010. Anita, let us start with you.

”Who, me?”

”Yes. Hand in your paper.”

”Here it is, Master Malstrom.”

Malstrom reads it over.

”Now, Anita, look at what you wrote. You said  “Although down this month, May sales reflect the third best-selling May on record after May ’08 and May ’09.” Why stop there? Why not say it is a better month than when the Atari 2600 was on the market?”

The room full of little analysts laughed at this.

Malstrom pointed to the paper. “Anita, you actually have to write the word ‘decline’. You cannot write it as ‘best-selling on record after last year, and the year before’. It is not honest analysis. You are trying to give an impression that sales are robust when they are seeing some significant decline. Normally, this decline would be acceptable due to a transition period where a next generation of game consoles would be coming out. But there are no new successors to the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 coming out anytime soon.”

”And look at this,” Malstrom taps the paper. “You write: “The 360 platform, across hardware, software, and accessories, contributed the greatest share of revenue to industry sales for the month, and year-to-date.” How does this matter at all if no one is making any money from such revenue? You make it sound as if everyone is getting rich off of the Xbox 360 when the exact opposite is occurring.

”What do you write here?” Malstrom squints at the paper. “The PS3 platform has enjoyed the greatest percentage growth, with platform sales across hardware, software, and accessories up 32% for the month, and 28% year-to-date.” So if I used Anita’s analyzing system, I could say the iPhone 4 enjoyed the greatest percentage growth, with platform sales across hardware, software, and accessories up 100% since a month ago, and 100% year-to-date since the iPhone 4 didn’t exist yet.”

The room roared with laughter at Anita.

”Percentages don’t mean anything. In order to properly analyze the market, you must state what is actually going on. If the market is declining, say that the market is declining. If the market is declining, but you try to write that it is growing, you will fail as an analyst.”

Malstrom turns the page. “Now let us see what you wrote about the hardware. You start off by saying: “The portable hardware category contributed the most to the decline in hardware sales for the month, yet the NDS is the best-selling hardware system for May.” Nowhere is there any mention of the DS lifecycle finishing due to the announcement of 3DS. Nowhere do you mention the DS hardware is transitioning to the new DS coming out. This is curious as you mentioned the transition when the PS2 and Xbox sales declined prior to the PS3 and Xbox 360.

”Let us see what else you wrote: “Console hardware unit sales are, in fact, flat to last year.” But yet, two sentences later you say the hardware sales are up from a year ago.”

The classroom erupts in laughter.

”And what is this? I do not understand this statement: “Declines in sales result from a lower average selling price this year compared to last.” Either you forgot to indicate ‘revenue’ or you are actually stating that lower prices resulted in lower sales. Anita, your analysis might as well be written in crayons.”


Above: What Anita Fraizer used to write her analysis.

Malstrom sat up in his chair and leaned forward. He took the cigar out of his mouth and pointed it at Anita. “I want to talk to you about this: “Compared to April, both the PS3 and the 360 platforms realized a unit sales increase in hardware.” You missed a console, Anita. Do you happen to know what that console is?”

Anita shrugged. “I don’t know…”

Malstrom got up and went to the chalkboard.  “OK, Anita, let us go through this. Here are the hardware sales numbers for this month.” With chalk in his hand, Malstrom wrote down the numbers.

PlayStation 3 154.5K
PSP 59.4K
Xbox 360 194.6K
Wii 334.8K
Nintendo DS 383.7K

”And here are the numbers for last month.”

NPD May ’09
PlayStation 2 117K
PlayStation 3 131K
PSP 100.4K
Xbox 360 175K
Wii 289.5K
Nintendo DS 633.5K

”Now, let us do some simple adding and subtraction, Anita. We will omit the PlayStation 2 since it isn’t listed in today’s charts. Here are the differences.

DS: -249.8K
PSP: -41K
Xbox360: 19.6K
PlayStation 3: 23.5
Wii: 45.3

”Anita, you specifically cited the DS decline as the greatest. This is true. But you did not mention the handheld already had a successor announced for it. If you are going to spot out the hardware that had the highest decline year over year, you must cite the hardware that had the highest increase year over year. And what console would that be, Anita?”

Anita responded, “Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 had a hardware increase from the previous year. There is nothing factually incorrect about that statement.”

”Except you are omitting an entire console. And it is not just one console, it is the console that saw the highest hardware increase year over year for this month. This console is the Wii. Investors should conclude you are trying to manipulate them since you are only saying good things about non-Nintendo hardware and only saying bad things about Nintendo hardware. You do not even mention the Wii at all!”

Malstrom slapped the report closed. “Anita, you get an F.”

And Malstrom threw the report into the garbage.

”Now for our next report. This one comes from Mr. Michael Pachter. Let us read what Mikey is saying…”

5/11/10 ”The releases of key software titles in 2010 will lead to a rebound in sales, according to Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter, however Wii sales will stagnate and hardware sales are also expected to decline.”

(Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/pachter-industry-sales-will-rebound-in-2010)

”Completely wrong! F!”

07/10/08 ”Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter has said that he’s certain a high definition version of Nintendo’s Wii home console will be released.”

(Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/pachter-absolutely-convinced-wii-hd-is-on-the-way)

”No! No! No!”

 


Above: The Video Game Market

When the Titanic was sinking, the musicians kept playing to keep the audience calmed. So as the gaming market sinks (Analysts: “It cannot sink! Video games always grow!”), let me play the music from the past video games to keep everyone calm.


Above: Malstrom’s band shall play for you…

Normally, I only do one music post per day or whenever I update this site. But since this month’s NPD numbers have depressed everyone, I will play three music posts! Perhaps this will calm publishers enough to not jump off a bridge.

 

Rambo II

Commodore 64

1988

 

Last Ninja 2

Commodore 64

1988

 

Journey to Silius

NES

1990

 

With one picture, Nintendo blows away all the analysts and their spinning. The bottom line is that the gap between the Wii and the HD Twins is increasing, not decreasing. I love how that blue goes almost straight up when Mario 5 is released. And, of course, Mario 5 is still in the top ten.

It is clear the analysts are doing their hardest to distort the market. Even when the Wii was sold out for years, Nintendo was still ‘doomed’.

Note that every time the Wii sold less than a year ago, the analysts would trumpet it (and this was actually unfair because the Wii was sold out, it could only come down). But now that the Wii went UP in sales compared to a year ago, is any analyst mentioning it? Noooooooooooo…

When this Industry goes kaput, I hope it takes its analysts with them.

Investors, you are dealing with fraudsters. The only way we can truly get rid of the analysts is to hit them where it truly hurts: in removing their customers, in removing the investors who pay obscene amounts of money for so little.

 

Sean,

I read your recent posts regarding sales = quality with great interest as this is something I have been thinking about a lot lately. I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion that consumers define quality, but I do think that sales on it’s own is not a good enough measure of something as complicated as human nature.

A good example of this is the Hollywood of recent years. From what I understand, this is an industry run by people who believe your assertion that “sales means better quality”, yet Hollywood is in decline. I think that there is a number of contributing factors for this but for starters one I would like to focus on is the emphasis on opening weekend box office.

I remember seeing a Q&A with Eli Roth at a film festival years ago (when Cabin Fever had just come out) and the discussion got onto the state of the horror genre in movies. He told the crowd that if they want Hollywood to make more horror movies they have to see any horror film released on the opening weekend. Seeing the film any other time made absolutely no difference, even seeing the movie just a week later. “How the hell can paying to see a movie make no difference to it success?” I thought at the time. Years later I could understand, but one week? However all the research I’ve done since then confirms he was right. It’s much, much harder to have a ‘sleeper hit’ now days than it used to be.

The problem with using opening weekend figures of course is it tells us absolutely nothing about how much people enjoyed a film. Rather, it’s just a measure of who successful the advertising campaign leading up to the films release was. So over the years, Hollywood has become all about hype attached to bad movies. And after getting burnt again and again, people are slowly learning not to believe the hype.

Another factor is sequels and franchises. One great example was after the second Tomb Raider film came out I read a very funny article where the author simply could not figure out why the second film had done so badly and the first so well, when the second was clearly a better film. The only conclusion: people must like crap. But it completely ignored the fact that there was a huge amount of goodwill among fans in the lead up to the release of the first movie, which was completely destroyed when people felt ripped off for having paid to see such a bad film. So the second was always going to struggle, regardless of the quality (in the customers eyes).

I could think of many more examples from various industries but before I ramble too long, my point in all this is that box office or sales or whatever isn’t always a true indicator of how the customers feel. Sure there are many examples where the market very clearly speaks one way or the other, but the rest of the time how can we be sure that sales reflects the markets tastes? I ask because I really want to know, I hope that this email prompts some enlightening discussion.
I know what you are saying. You are talking about advertising that hits the subconscious or other non-critical thinking attributes of the consumer to get them to buy the product. They may hate the product, but this is not known until after they bought it. You have your own answer when you talked about box office day sales. Once people use the product, they are repelled and tell other people which ends up being a chain effect. Hollywood movies, like hardcore video games, do much of their business in the first few weeks because the lousy product is sugarcoated with hype to make it easier to swallow.

Clearly, the bad reputation of the first Tomb Raider movie made sure the second one didn’t succeed. Also, people do tire of sequels. Matrix Reloaded was a ‘better’ Matrix movie (in terms of more special effects, more fight scenes, etc.) yet it was nowhere as fresh. Entertainment is dependent on surprise which is why sequels, even if very good, will do poorly. (BTW, I think Matrix Reloaded sucks compared to the original Matrix.)

It doesn’t matter how successful advertising is. All advertising does is bring attention to the product. If the product is bad, the greatest advertising in the world will be unable to save it. Why? People’s real life use with the product trumps everything else. If someone who excitedly bought a Xbox 360 because of Microsoft’s marketing ends up with a red ring of death, they become almost impossible to reach through Microsoft’s advertising.

All the advertising in the world will not continually sell a bad video game. Nintendo’s ‘long-tail’ selling video games is not because Nintendo created some super new marketing scheme but because the games are actually very good.. Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario 5- these are all some of the best video games made in a decade. They all have high value to consumers in some way.

Now, let me ask you a question. What if there was no product? All advertising fizzles away once the customer gets to the product. Either the product works or it doesn’t.

The great economist, Joseph Shumpeter, wondered about this issue:

”The ways in which issues and the popular will on any issue are being manufactured is exactly analogous to the ways of commercial advertising. We find the same attempts to contact the subconscious. We find the same technique of creating favorable and unfavorable associations which are the more effective the less rational they are. We find the same evasions and reticences and the same trick of producing opinion by reiterated assertion that is successful precisely to the extent to which it avoids rational argument and the danger of awakening the critical faculties of the people. And so on. Only, all these arts have infinitely more scope in the sphere of public affairs than they have in the sphere of private and professional life. The picture of the prettiest girl that ever lived will in the long run prove powerless to maintain the sales of a bad cigarette. There is no equally effective safeguard in the case of political decisions. Many decisions of fateful importance are of a nature that makes it impossible for the public to experiment with them at its leisure and at moderate cost. Even if that is possible, however, judgment is as a rule not so easy to arrive at as it is in the case of the cigarette, because effects are less easy to interpret.”

”Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy,” by Joseph Shumpeter, Page 262

In other words, a politician can keep ‘advertising’ on and on again and there is no product.

How’s that stimulus working out for you? It only cost trillions of dollars which you’ll have to repay somewhere down the road. All the evidence around you points to the economy getting worse, of falling stocks, of more jobs being lost. Yet, what does the politician say? The politician repeats, over and over, that ‘the economy is recovering’ and ‘soon, the economy will rebound’. Since there is no product, there is nothing to break the illusion. It is why you keep seeing the politician keep talking in airy platitudes

I’ve gotten several emails saying, “Sales cannot determine quality since advertising can distort it.” Yes, it is true that someone can lie and say, “This is the best product ever made!” and when people go to try it, they find out it is not the best product ever made. The answer is that the product destroys the illusion. In the long run, sales determines the quality.

Any distortion will be temporary because the person will end up arriving at the product (as the exercise is to sell the product). There are other distortions like bad weather harming sales because people stay inside. But this isn’t getting to the heart of the matter that quality is defined by customers.

With a politician, you get nothing but distortions. And this is where the true danger lies.



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Smashchu2 said:

Other M is going to flop because it's human insticts? What the flying geezers are you talking about? You do realise it's a video game, not a living being, right?

What are you talking about? Games with stories usually do bad. Players do not play games to hear characters go on and on about their internal problems. In New Super Mario Bros Wii, does Mario go one about how this war could have been stopped. How all the inocent Goombas could have been spared. Hell no he doesn't. Do the Miis in Wii Sports gon one and one about how their Mii wife is cheating on them and golf is the only thing they have left in life. See how silly it is.

Most big sellers have little to no story. WoW's story can only be found if you look for it. Call of Duty's story is a string of events and then you get to the shooting. Most people play the multiplayer anyway.

This kind of writing would not be acceptable in any other medium. Why do we accept in it video games?

I never called him a raging monkey. He's a raging Dalek. There's a difference. For one, monkeys are much more rational and reasonable than Daleks.

Ad hominen. I love how you don't attack the message but him. I'd love to see you try to prove him wrong.

Second, how does Metroid Prime Trilogy, a re-release of games made in 2002-2004 suppose to count? Does that also mean re-release of Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 1 is now a debut for a brand new TV series? And the reason people noted this is because how DALEK SEAN went on an aggression fueled hate-trip about how Yoshio Sakamoto sucks because of this and that with this quote being one of the primary reasons. Also, I think it's much more pathetic going nuts when people correct this flaw, rather than people correcting someone as irrational and idiotic as DALEK SEAN.

I love how people interpret what he says as angry. Again, it shows how he must tick people like you off. Ad Hominen again.

Even if you ignore the Trilogy, there was Prime 3 in 2007. It has not been that long. Also, I didn't say Trilogy was a new game. You made that up. It was a Metorid game on a console in 2009.

Also, his point on Sakamoto are very valid. Most people agree that Fusion is weak compaired to Super Metroid which was made by Gunpei Yokoi. Zero Mission sold less then the Metroid re-release on the GBA. Other M will most likely uner preform compaired to Prime as all of Sakamoto's games have. I'm not even sure why they have him around.

And the answer you're looking for is professional criticism. Remember that magical little thing?

What professional critism? Critism is an opinion anyway. A lot of it is paid off and based on hype. "Quality," in that sense is subjective. I've played a lot of games that good good reviews and I thought they were horrible. Must I accept that that is quality work. Am I, the paying customer, wrong?

Sales are quality because people spent money on it. If you assume that sales are not quality, then you must also accept that people buy things they don't like. Customers buy what they want. If New Super Mario Bros Wii is what they want, then it must be of high quality. I mean, they bought it over Heavy Rain. They must not like quality. Or maybe because quality is misdefined.

So now I ask, why is a critics review score quality? Is it quality if it is bought? And, if we define it that way, how come some games of high quality fail in the marketplace while game sof low quality don't?

Oh yes, because your opinion on games with story applies to EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING, NO EXCEPTIONS!

Sale numbers cannot in dictate on one's quality and it never will. It's unreliable and often times inaccurate. More often that not, game such as Okami and Team Ico games sell poorly, even when  they are considered one of the most artistic games of all time. So how can sales exactly determine one's quality? You're point does not apply here.

Learn what ad hominem actually means before talking to me, thank you very much.

My point still stands. If it's already released before, it doesn't count.

Oh yes, of course, DALEK SEAN calling Yoshio Sakamoto being the embodiment of evil, because he supposedly RUINS Metroid by doing something different for a change is now perfectly valid and reasonable. No you are wrong. Yoshio Sakamoto both directed and designed Super Metroid, whereas Gunpei Yokoi was only a designer along side with Makoto Kanoh and also the general manager. Do some actual research beforeciting these. And I will never understand your claim(or rather, DALEK SEAN's claim that you are so obnoxiously parroting) on Fusion's quality. Because I belong to several communities, I know alot of people who not only DON'T think Fusion is bad, but think it as one of the best in the whole franchise. I dare to guess that you've never even played Metroid Fusion(or any Metroid game, for that matter), but only read how there are complaints about it on the internet, rather than seeing it yourself and actually do the research.

Again, no research. Last time I checked, there do not exist any evidence that supports or disagrees with the claim that re-release of Metroid NES sold more than Zero Mission and Fusion, which means that DALEK SEAN's claim is most likely fabricated so he can make more insane arguements. Second, even if it was true, there is a perfect reason that has nothing to do with the quality of the game itself. As we all know, Nintendo has a ability to play with people nostalgias. So re-releasing a NES game for gamers is a great way of earning more cash. Let's not forget that at the time the  only way to play NES games was to either own the console itself or an emulator. Virtual Console didn't exist back then. How can I take you seriously if all you can do is repeat DALEK SEAN's remarks over and over again without doing any research by yourself?

I am not suprised in the least bit that you are no satisfied with the games critics called good, since as I demonstrated it's obvious that you don't put your thought to it.

Sales numbers as indication of quality is idiotic and distrustful. First of all, how does products' sales numbers determine it's quality? What if the costumer who bought the product was not satisfied? What if the he bought it in accident? What if there' a several million people just like him? What if they are not satisfied with the product either?

Sales numbers as the judge of products' quality is just as random and subjective as criticism is.

Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen performed very well in the box office. Does that means it's better than all the movies that sold less tickets? Does that mean it's the better film in direction and script than Citizen Kane, The Godfather, The Exorcist and Sprited Away?

NO, for the love of Christ(Get it? I mentioned the Exorcist before saying Christ. I'm so sutble), NO!

And there are several other points on why sales numebers don't work as the indicator for quality, because:

1. Consumers are not professionals.
2. Some Consumers don't know what they want.
3. Consumers satisfaction is not guaranteed.
4. Some, most, if not all consumers are idiots.

Actually, you(or rather, DALEK SEAN) are not even talking about quality. You are talking about popularity among the general public. And general public will almost eat everything given to them like animals, further showing how this arguement does not work.


Basically, if all you can do is parrot DALEK SEAN's arguement(which itself is insanse and irrational) without any thought, you're only wasting everyone's time. You're acting as nothing more than just DALEK SEAN's tool, or put it more harshly, idea slave. It's like playing a saxophone to a deaf bat. This discussion does not worth continuing if every arguement is all stolen from DALEK SEAN.

Thank you my dear sir, for I have wasted atleast thirty minutes of my life hammering this to your brain. I hope you are proud of yourself.



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- Douglas Adams

UnstableGriffin said:

Sale numbers cannot in dictate on one's quality and it never will. It's unreliable and often times inaccurate. More often that not, game such as Okami and Team Ico games sell poorly, even when  they are considered one of the most artistic games of all time. So how can sales exactly determine one's quality? You're point does not apply here.

Learn what ad hominem actually means before talking to me, thank you very much.

My point still stands. If it's already released before, it doesn't count.

I am not suprised in the least bit that you are no satisfied with the games critics called good, since as I demonstrated it's obvious that you don't put your thought to it.

Sales numbers as indication of quality is idiotic and distrustful. First of all, how does products' sales numbers determine it's quality? What if the costumer who bought the product was not satisfied? What if the he bought it in accident? What if there' a several million people just like him? What if they are not satisfied with the product either?

Sales numbers as the judge of products' quality is just as random and subjective as criticism is.

Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen performed very well in the box office. Does that means it's better than all the movies that sold less tickets? Does that mean it's the better film in direction and script than Citizen Kane, The Godfather, The Exorcist and Sprited Away?

NO, for the love of Christ(Get it? I mentioned the Exorcist before saying Christ. I'm so sutble), NO!

And there are several other points on why sales numebers don't work as the indicator for quality, because:

1. Consumers are not professionals.
2. Some Consumers don't know what they want.
3. Consumers satisfaction is not guaranteed.
4. Some, most, if not all consumers are idiots.

Actually, you(or rather, DALEK SEAN) are not even talking about quality. You are talking about popularity among the general public. And general public will almost eat everything given to them like animals, further showing how this arguement does not work.


Basically, if all you can do is parrot DALEK SEAN's arguement(which itself is insanse and irrational) without any thought, you're only wasting everyone's time. You're acting as nothing more than just DALEK SEAN's tool, or put it more harshly, idea slave. It's like playing a saxophone to a deaf bat. This discussion does not worth continuing if every arguement is all stolen from DALEK SEAN.

Thank you my dear sir, for I have wasted atleast thirty minutes of my life hammering this to your brain. I hope you are proud of yourself.


More often than not higher quality games sell more than lower quality games. Contrast any random piece of shovelware to NSMB or Super Mario Galaxy. You'll see that quality tends to rise to the top. BTW just because ICO and Okami sold poorly, doesn't break this because they were both flawed in respect to accessibility which is one metric which is too often overlooked by reviewers. Game reviewers themselves aren't always representative of what the public themselves want, they can succumb to hype and they can overlook important failings of games which only come out once the general public gets their hands on them. Furthermore its not uncommon for reviews to be bought or influenced by publishers.

In the case of Nintendo games, sales do mean quality for everything which clears the 5M sold mark. Since many of the games sell the majority of their overall sales past the point where word of mouth would have killed the sales there is no other conclusion to draw. Movies are not the same as games, you cannot compare the two especially if you're not willing to consider ticket price inflation before coming out with the idea that Transformers 2 actually sold more tickets than The Godfather. It also doesn't take into account continued sales of DVDs either.

As for your 1,2,3,4 I have my own.

1. Professionals often don't rate products the same way the actual end user rates them.
2. Implies that most do know what they want.
3. Of course not. However most people know what they like better than any third party who may try to influence them.
4. You're an idiot??? You do admit that everyone could be...

The numerous product failuresI could cite are a good example of how the general population will eat anything. ^^

I took much less time that you. Maybe you're just too full of bile?

 

 

 



Tease.

LordTheNightKnight said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

LordTheNightKnight said:

[...]

Trolling means doing it for attention for himself. He's stated he wants attention for games getting better. Big difference. So you're still misrepresenting. His stance isn't that he wants to bash the game all the time. His stance is to call out the apparent flaws, that so far no one has actually denied.

I'm not 100% sure the way you are describing him here actually paints a totally positive picture...


He's not trying to make you think well of him. He wants you to understand why some games work and some don't, and how that matters to the future of gaming.

In this case, mission complete!

I have no problems to admit that while I haven't the same tastes as Malstrom on games, I totally agree with him that gameplay is the most important thing. All the rest can be added to make a game even better, but it cannot replace gameplay, except in niches like interactive movie games (that I don't like, anyway). I'd just add a thing about plots: a lot of masterpieces with a story ranging from more than decent to very good, don't tell it forcing the players to watch long cutscenes, but playing the game itself, see for example Deus Ex, Planescape: Torment, Thief I, II and III, Heretic II, Myth I and II and many others, this tells us that a story doesn't always need to be the simplest possible, it's enough that the biggest (perceived  (*)) part of the story told be active part of the game itself.

(*) perceived, because the game can have a background story centuries old, but its most detailed part must be the present and active one, a concept that has been valid since the Greek tragedies.



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UnstableGriffin said:

And there are several other points on why sales numebers don't work as the indicator for quality, because:

1. Consumers are not professionals.
4. Some, most, if not all consumers are idiots.

There is no facepalm big enough for this.  Companies believing 4 to be true is why so many struggle with making games for the Wii.  I don't even know how 1 is relevant.



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LordTheNightKnight said:
jarrod said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jarrod said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jarrod said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

You're just using a pat argument to try to dismiss something you don't like.

Sounds like Malstrom talking about Other M.


That's another strawman, since although he is snarky, he's been stating several reasons why he think it won't work. That is the opposite of what you are claiming. And the fact that you wrote such a short sentence is yet another pat argument to dismiss him.

You don't have to agree with him, but just dismissing him is foolhardy. Actually try to argue against what he says.

I wasn't positing an argument, just making an observation.  Also, you should look up what "strawman" really means, and the proper context to throw out such a loaded term.


Misrepresenting how someone made an argument is a form of strawman, which is what you did.

Misrepresentation would be your own little flawed interpretation.  I'm calling what I'm seeing, which is Malstrom trolling a game he's never touched at every opportunity.


Trolling means doing it for attention for himself. He's stated he wants attention for games getting better. Big difference. So you're still misrepresenting. His stance isn't that he wants to bash the game all the time. His stance is to call out the apparent flaws, that so far no one has actually denied.

lol.  Malstrom's ego dwarf's most, but that's beside the point really.  All I think can be established here is that your grasp on the definition of "trolling" is about as accurate as your understanding of "strawman".

His stance isn't that he wants to bash the game all the time, that's just his modus operandi.  Bashing a game, that he's never touched, at every possible opportunity. 



Squilliam said:

More often than not higher quality games sell more than lower quality games. Contrast any random piece of shovelware to NSMB or Super Mario Galaxy. You'll see that quality tends to rise to the top. BTW just because ICO and Okami sold poorly, doesn't break this because they were both flawed in respect to accessibility which is one metric which is too often overlooked by reviewers. Game reviewers themselves aren't always representative of what the public themselves want, they can succumb to hype and they can overlook important failings of games which only come out once the general public gets their hands on them. Furthermore its not uncommon for reviews to be bought or influenced by publishers.

In the case of Nintendo games, sales do mean quality for everything which clears the 5M sold mark. Since many of the games sell the majority of their overall sales past the point where word of mouth would have killed the sales there is no other conclusion to draw. Movies are not the same as games, you cannot compare the two especially if you're not willing to consider ticket price inflation before coming out with the idea that Transformers 2 actually sold more tickets than The Godfather. It also doesn't take into account continued sales of DVDs either.

As for your 1,2,3,4 I have my own.

1. Professionals often don't rate products the same way the actual end user rates them.
2. Implies that most do know what they want.
3. Of course not. However most people know what they like better than any third party who may try to influence them.
4. You're an idiot??? You do admit that everyone could be...

The numerous product failuresI could cite are a good example of how the general population will eat anything. ^^

I took much less time that you. Maybe you're just too full of bile?

While admitteadly yes, sales can sometimes indicate it's quality, but it cannot always be relied upon and can often times be wrong.

That also brings me to my previous argument, that the sales is less about the actual quality and more about the product's popularity. And popular does not always mean it's good.

Good point with the issue of accessabilty, though. And you're quite right about ticket price inflation too, didn't even consider it.

And as for your response to my list:

1. While that is true, but more often than not the end users don't have the same wider scope of vision than the professionals do, so they would have more limited understanding on it's importance on whatever category it's suppose to belong in.

2. That depends on your view.

3.  That's true, but sometimes the product they were wishing have a possibility disappoint them in a couple of ways.

4. Well, I've never claimed myself to be that bright either.

Glad to know that.

And probably yeah, don't we all sometimes? Though, I think it has more to do with the fact that my computer crashed before I could finish my post.

 

Incidentially, DALEK SEAN's usage of "Don't like it, Don't read it" is pathetic and somehow kind of true at the same time. Mostly pathetic, though.



He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.

- Douglas Adams

Mr Khan said:


In regards to Other M, it all depends on how they sell it. My guess is that the Western ad campaign is going to be similar to what Nintendo showed at E3, all emphasis on the classic Metroid action and on none of the cinematics, while it will be the opposite in Japan.

All the maternal instincts stuff is there to get the game to sell in Japan. The question is if the non-maternal-instincts stuff is strong enough to stand on its own that the game can at least not suffer compared to other Metroid games, and possibly even surpass them.

That's what I've hard is that the game is designed with Japan in mind. But I still don't think the game will make a huge impact.



UnstableGriffin said:
Squilliam said:

More often than not higher quality games sell more than lower quality games. Contrast any random piece of shovelware to NSMB or Super Mario Galaxy. You'll see that quality tends to rise to the top. BTW just because ICO and Okami sold poorly, doesn't break this because they were both flawed in respect to accessibility which is one metric which is too often overlooked by reviewers. Game reviewers themselves aren't always representative of what the public themselves want, they can succumb to hype and they can overlook important failings of games which only come out once the general public gets their hands on them. Furthermore its not uncommon for reviews to be bought or influenced by publishers.

In the case of Nintendo games, sales do mean quality for everything which clears the 5M sold mark. Since many of the games sell the majority of their overall sales past the point where word of mouth would have killed the sales there is no other conclusion to draw. Movies are not the same as games, you cannot compare the two especially if you're not willing to consider ticket price inflation before coming out with the idea that Transformers 2 actually sold more tickets than The Godfather. It also doesn't take into account continued sales of DVDs either.

As for your 1,2,3,4 I have my own.

1. Professionals often don't rate products the same way the actual end user rates them.
2. Implies that most do know what they want.
3. Of course not. However most people know what they like better than any third party who may try to influence them.
4. You're an idiot??? You do admit that everyone could be...

The numerous product failuresI could cite are a good example of how the general population will eat anything. ^^

I took much less time that you. Maybe you're just too full of bile?

While admitteadly yes, sales can sometimes indicate it's quality, but it cannot always be relied upon and can often times be wrong.

That also brings me to my previous argument, that the sales is less about the actual quality and more about the product's popularity. And popular does not always mean it's good.

Good point with the issue of accessabilty, though. And you're quite right about ticket price inflation too, didn't even consider it.

And as for your response to my list:

1. While that is true, but more often than not the end users don't have the same wider scope of vision than the professionals do, so they would have more limited understanding on it's importance on whatever category it's suppose to belong in.

2. That depends on your view.

3.  That's true, but sometimes the product they were wishing have a possibility disappoint them in a couple of ways.

4. Well, I've never claimed myself to be that bright either.

Glad to know that.

And probably yeah, don't we all sometimes? Though, I think it has more to do with the fact that my computer crashed before I could finish my post.

 

Incidentially, DALEK SEAN's usage of "Don't like it, Don't read it" is pathetic and somehow kind of true at the same time. Mostly pathetic, though.

Sales are an important part of making a qualified representation of the quality of a game. But they must be taken in context and interpretted like other data. So whilst they are objective in themselves they must still be interpretted and they are open to be interpretted in different ways. For instance, looking back at ICO and Okami, whilst they sold poorly relative to a lot of other software their target market was also much narrower and you could argue that they managed to achieve a larger market share of their niche than many other titles do in a broader sense. As an example you could have two pairs of scissors on the market, a right handed version and a left handed version. The left handed version may be better than the right handed version and yet sell 1/6th the total of the right handed version this is because the total market size for lefties is smaller than righties.

Sales vs quality is always a tricky subject at the best of times. Beyond the desirability of the product in question there are things like reputation, marketing and past experience to consider. Some qualities of game software aren't actually related to the merits of the individual product in question for instance its likely that if you took Mario Kart and slapped a completely different brand and name on it you'd get significantly lower sales. This is why sales alone are an indicator and not a final decider of quality. Its up to the individual making the comparison to level the playing field and use the information sales can offer in a proper context because alone they tell us nothing but how popular something is.

Btw: Someone should tell Malstrom that the perfect disruption machine is currently at 45% market share this year and down in market share YOY!

See, much nicer when theres no anger involved!



Tease.

"Btw: Someone should tell Malstrom that the perfect disruption machine is currently at 45% market share this year and down in market share YOY! "

He's aware of that, and stated flat out it was due to lost momentum in 2009.



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