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Portables are a viable alternative to home consoles. You can just as easily play a portable as you can a non portable at home. They both cater to people who play games and people can just as easily decide that they want a personal portable over a home console such as a Wii, PS3, Xbox 360.



Tease.

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Alby_da_Wolf said:
Pyro as Bill said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

So 3DS should disrupt both PS3 and 3D TV with glasses...

While we know that glasses 3D won't ever become mainstream, we also know that parallax barrier 3D isn't good too for the living room, you must stay within a precise spot to enjoy the 3D effect.

BTW, both system are stereoscopic ones, they don't imply big differences for games developers, the skills acquired programming for 3DS can be used to port or develop games for whatever other stereoscopic 3D system, differences are mostly handled at graphics and display drivers level, if even necessary.

That is what disruption is. Crappy products for crappy consumers. The 3D will get better and move upstream. All of what has happened cries a disruption.

@Griffen:Have you seen videos of Other M from E3? It is pretty much drama in space. Samus has loads of inner monologues. Character says two sentenses. Monologue. Character says helllo. Monologue. Not to mention how she keeps talking about the "baby." It's just way over the top and is ruining Samus as a character.

Portable console often outsold home ones, but they aren't a replacement for them, ..........

Japan says Hi.

It starts with the crappy JRPGs but one day it could slowly move up to the point where the biggest IPs on every home console are available on the handheld.......with motion, Wii graphics, online and in 3D. Can you imagine a day when people want the latest handheld more than the next console?

Sure I can, and it's already happening with (DS plus (*) PSP) > (Wii plus PS3 plus XB360), but it wouldn't be a replacement unless it offers whatever home consoles users are used to: but offering all that a portable would risk overshooting its main market.

(*) damn plus sign, when will VGC bring it back?


Just in case you didn't notice, Malstrom has discussed that some things with home consoles that can't be replaced on handhelds. You can't do Wii Sports or DDR on a handheld, for example (and the latter was actually tried, but not so well).



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Alby_da_Wolf said:
Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

So 3DS should disrupt both PS3 and 3D TV with glasses...

While we know that glasses 3D won't ever become mainstream, we also know that parallax barrier 3D isn't good too for the living room, you must stay within a precise spot to enjoy the 3D effect.

BTW, both system are stereoscopic ones, they don't imply big differences for games developers, the skills acquired programming for 3DS can be used to port or develop games for whatever other stereoscopic 3D system, differences are mostly handled at graphics and display drivers level, if even necessary.

That is what disruption is. Crappy products for crappy consumers. The 3D will get better and move upstream. All of what has happened cries a disruption.

@Griffen:Have you seen videos of Other M from E3? It is pretty much drama in space. Samus has loads of inner monologues. Character says two sentenses. Monologue. Character says helllo. Monologue. Not to mention how she keeps talking about the "baby." It's just way over the top and is ruining Samus as a character.

Portable console often outsold home ones, but they aren't a replacement for them, parallax barrier is a simple and clever tech, but the size of the grille, its distance from the plane of the pixels and the distanze between users' eyes determine a very narrow zone within which you can enjoy 3D, put this tech in a living room and only one user will be able to view in 3D. Is there a way to evolve this tech to overcome this limit? Maybe, but even if it's the case, 3DS remains a device usable by only one person at a time, due to its screen size and having only one set of controls built-in and not expandable. Moreover, Nintendo doesn't own the tech, it just buys displays from display producers, if they find a way to port that tech to home TVs it will be available to everybody and it won't disrupt PS3, that will be able to use it like anybody else, but 3DTVs with glasses, including Sony ones . Whatever 3D tech will conquer the living room will be, if stereoscopic, readily usable by anyone that was already using stereoscopy, including glasses, otherwise, if it will be not stereoscopic, every console and game producer previously using stereoscopy will have to start on a par with the others and will have to redesign the stage of image generation, parallax barrier gives a great advantage in portable devices, but that advantage isn't transferred to other fields, and what's more, it's a tech very SW compatible with its current competitors, that so won't be left behind, not only, it also doesn't create a barrier for SW developers, so that if they choose 3DS they aren't exclusively locked to it.

So, IMVHO, the potential for disruption exists, if they devise the right refinement of the tech, but towards 3D with glasses (*), not towards home consoles.

(*) That is anyway doomed, whatever 3D tech viable for home TVs not using glasses will be released first, will kill it.

The bolds

You just described a disruption. A disruption is always bad compaired to the incumbent. Sony would see the 3DS as "crappy 3D." The 3D on the 3DS will get better.

You are totally wrong about the second part, and this is why you do not get disruption. Disruption is a value innovation. Disruptors work in that they have new values, namely a asymetric motivation and an asymetric skill. This is also why Christiansen calls them "Disruptive Innovation," verses a "Disruptive Technology," after his first book. Nintendo's 3D will only be absorbed if they lack the skill and the motivation.

The 3DS is disruptive. There is no doubt about it. Look at the very end of Nintendo's press conferense and how many times they say "No more glasses," and the begining of Sony's Press Conference where they talk about the "true 3D experience."

Here is a video to prove my point. Listen to how he hates current 3D and likes the new one.



Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

So 3DS should disrupt both PS3 and 3D TV with glasses...

While we know that glasses 3D won't ever become mainstream, we also know that parallax barrier 3D isn't good too for the living room, you must stay within a precise spot to enjoy the 3D effect.

BTW, both system are stereoscopic ones, they don't imply big differences for games developers, the skills acquired programming for 3DS can be used to port or develop games for whatever other stereoscopic 3D system, differences are mostly handled at graphics and display drivers level, if even necessary.

That is what disruption is. Crappy products for crappy consumers. The 3D will get better and move upstream. All of what has happened cries a disruption.

@Griffein:Have you seen videos of Other M from E3? It is pretty much drama in space. Samus has loads of inner monologues. Character says two sentenses. Monologue. Character says helllo. Monologue. Not to mention how she keeps talking about the "baby." It's just way over the top and is ruining Samus as a character.


And here's my question to you. Have you actually PLAYED the game itself from beginning to end? Oh, nice typo you got there.

 

Speaking of which, forgive me the question is stupid for you, but how exactly is 3DS' sales numbers and it's effects on Sony that important?



He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.

- Douglas Adams

Smashchu2 said:

The bolds

You just described a disruption. A disruption is always bad compaired to the incumbent. Sony would see the 3DS as "crappy 3D." The 3D on the 3DS will get better.

You are totally wrong about the second part, and this is why you do not get disruption. Disruption is a value innovation. Disruptors work in that they have new values, namely a asymetric motivation and an asymetric skill. This is also why Christiansen calls them "Disruptive Innovation," verses a "Disruptive Technology," after his first book. Nintendo's 3D will only be absorbed if they lack the skill and the motivation.

The 3DS is disruptive. There is no doubt about it. Look at the very end of Nintendo's press conferense and how many times they say "No more glasses," and the begining of Sony's Press Conference where they talk about the "true 3D experience."

Here is a video to prove my point. Listen to how he hates current 3D and likes the new one.

The point is that the parallax barrier technology, right now, is very limted in its applications and will be useless as a home theater solution for several years. After that, if it isn't a technological dead end and it gets better enough to be used on a big screen for mltiple viewers, it will be a competing tech for other 3d big display techs. This has little to do with the PS3, that will display its 3D games and BluRay movies on whatever TV it is connected to, including a glassless parallax barrier 2012 model.

Sony will either adopt the new tech or fight it if they have any stake on a competing tech, but it's about the screens, not the consoles. In some ways, the 3DS bringing more limelight on 3D gaming and 3D displays could even work as a benefit for Sony, because the sooner a new expensive TV set can be built by buying a glassless display from the same providers Nintendo uses, the sooner Sony can bring out a new generation of TVs.

Again: the PS3 is not tied to the current glass-needing displays. Sony is not tied to the current display technology for their TVs. Nintendo did not invent the glassless displays, nor they will be their sole users, nor will they develop any special skillset on it that is not technology-agnostic. Please explain how the 3DS is disruptive of Sony's 3D push for home theaters today, including the PS3.

Rephrase it as "3DS is an adopter of a technolgy that poses a disruption threat to the current big 3D screens tech" and I will agree.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

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LordTheNightKnight said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Pyro as Bill said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

So 3DS should disrupt both PS3 and 3D TV with glasses...

While we know that glasses 3D won't ever become mainstream, we also know that parallax barrier 3D isn't good too for the living room, you must stay within a precise spot to enjoy the 3D effect.

BTW, both system are stereoscopic ones, they don't imply big differences for games developers, the skills acquired programming for 3DS can be used to port or develop games for whatever other stereoscopic 3D system, differences are mostly handled at graphics and display drivers level, if even necessary.

That is what disruption is. Crappy products for crappy consumers. The 3D will get better and move upstream. All of what has happened cries a disruption.

@Griffen:Have you seen videos of Other M from E3? It is pretty much drama in space. Samus has loads of inner monologues. Character says two sentenses. Monologue. Character says helllo. Monologue. Not to mention how she keeps talking about the "baby." It's just way over the top and is ruining Samus as a character.

Portable console often outsold home ones, but they aren't a replacement for them, ..........

Japan says Hi.

It starts with the crappy JRPGs but one day it could slowly move up to the point where the biggest IPs on every home console are available on the handheld.......with motion, Wii graphics, online and in 3D. Can you imagine a day when people want the latest handheld more than the next console?

Sure I can, and it's already happening with (DS plus (*) PSP) > (Wii plus PS3 plus XB360), but it wouldn't be a replacement unless it offers whatever home consoles users are used to: but offering all that a portable would risk overshooting its main market.

(*) damn plus sign, when will VGC bring it back?


Just in case you didn't notice, Malstrom has discussed that some things with home consoles that can't be replaced on handhelds. You can't do Wii Sports or DDR on a handheld, for example (and the latter was actually tried, but not so well).


I didn't know, but it's one of the points I had in my mind when I wrote that.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

So 3DS should disrupt both PS3 and 3D TV with glasses...

While we know that glasses 3D won't ever become mainstream, we also know that parallax barrier 3D isn't good too for the living room, you must stay within a precise spot to enjoy the 3D effect.

BTW, both system are stereoscopic ones, they don't imply big differences for games developers, the skills acquired programming for 3DS can be used to port or develop games for whatever other stereoscopic 3D system, differences are mostly handled at graphics and display drivers level, if even necessary.

That is what disruption is. Crappy products for crappy consumers. The 3D will get better and move upstream. All of what has happened cries a disruption.

@Griffen:Have you seen videos of Other M from E3? It is pretty much drama in space. Samus has loads of inner monologues. Character says two sentenses. Monologue. Character says helllo. Monologue. Not to mention how she keeps talking about the "baby." It's just way over the top and is ruining Samus as a character.

Portable console often outsold home ones, but they aren't a replacement for them, parallax barrier is a simple and clever tech, but the size of the grille, its distance from the plane of the pixels and the distanze between users' eyes determine a very narrow zone within which you can enjoy 3D, put this tech in a living room and only one user will be able to view in 3D. Is there a way to evolve this tech to overcome this limit? Maybe, but even if it's the case, 3DS remains a device usable by only one person at a time, due to its screen size and having only one set of controls built-in and not expandable. Moreover, Nintendo doesn't own the tech, it just buys displays from display producers, if they find a way to port that tech to home TVs it will be available to everybody and it won't disrupt PS3, that will be able to use it like anybody else, but 3DTVs with glasses, including Sony ones . Whatever 3D tech will conquer the living room will be, if stereoscopic, readily usable by anyone that was already using stereoscopy, including glasses, otherwise, if it will be not stereoscopic, every console and game producer previously using stereoscopy will have to start on a par with the others and will have to redesign the stage of image generation, parallax barrier gives a great advantage in portable devices, but that advantage isn't transferred to other fields, and what's more, it's a tech very SW compatible with its current competitors, that so won't be left behind, not only, it also doesn't create a barrier for SW developers, so that if they choose 3DS they aren't exclusively locked to it.

So, IMVHO, the potential for disruption exists, if they devise the right refinement of the tech, but towards 3D with glasses (*), not towards home consoles.

(*) That is anyway doomed, whatever 3D tech viable for home TVs not using glasses will be released first, will kill it.

The bolds

You just described a disruption. A disruption is always bad compaired to the incumbent. Sony would see the 3DS as "crappy 3D." The 3D on the 3DS will get better.

You are totally wrong about the second part, and this is why you do not get disruption. Disruption is a value innovation. Disruptors work in that they have new values, namely a asymetric motivation and an asymetric skill. This is also why Christiansen calls them "Disruptive Innovation," verses a "Disruptive Technology," after his first book. Nintendo's 3D will only be absorbed if they lack the skill and the motivation.

The 3DS is disruptive. There is no doubt about it. Look at the very end of Nintendo's press conferense and how many times they say "No more glasses," and the begining of Sony's Press Conference where they talk about the "true 3D experience."

Here is a video to prove my point. Listen to how he hates current 3D and likes the new one.

You are abstracting disruption too much: my main points are that right now parallax barrier isn't viable for home TVs, so it's confined to portables (and so increasing Nintendo strength in that market), and that Nintendo doesn't own that tech.

If and when displays producers refine that tech to the point it's usable on home TVs, it will disrupt without any doubt 3D TVs with glasses (unless they won't have been already disrupted by another glasses-less tech), but those TVs will be usable by ANY console that was already able to deliver stereoscopic 3D.

Whenever that tech will go upmarket in the home TV market, it won't be by any means a Nintendo exclusive. Asymmetric motivation and skill cannot magically give parallax barrier the ability to run on home TVs, but once display producers manage to do it, they'll keep on selling their new TVs and monitors to whoever wants them, not exclusively to Nintendo consoles owners, whenever it will be ready for home TVs, it will be available to everybody, so parallax barrier going upstream will actually benefit Nintendo competitors on home consoles, while currently they are left behind by 3DS on portables. The disruptive potential of 3DS' 3D tech is currently limited to portables, but whenever it goes upmarket to home TV, it will put all the contenders on the same level.

But even if 3DS were disruptive for home consoles, it would be so for EVERY home console, as they are all limited in their 3D possibilities in the same way, by the current 3D home TVs limits.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


WereKitten said:
Smashchu2 said:

The bolds

You just described a disruption. A disruption is always bad compaired to the incumbent. Sony would see the 3DS as "crappy 3D." The 3D on the 3DS will get better.

You are totally wrong about the second part, and this is why you do not get disruption. Disruption is a value innovation. Disruptors work in that they have new values, namely a asymetric motivation and an asymetric skill. This is also why Christiansen calls them "Disruptive Innovation," verses a "Disruptive Technology," after his first book. Nintendo's 3D will only be absorbed if they lack the skill and the motivation.

The 3DS is disruptive. There is no doubt about it. Look at the very end of Nintendo's press conferense and how many times they say "No more glasses," and the begining of Sony's Press Conference where they talk about the "true 3D experience."

Here is a video to prove my point. Listen to how he hates current 3D and likes the new one.

The point is that the parallax barrier technology, right now, is very limted in its applications and will be useless as a home theater solution for several years. After that, if it isn't a technological dead end and it gets better enough to be used on a big screen for mltiple viewers, it will be a competing tech for other 3d big display techs. This has little to do with the PS3, that will display its 3D games and BluRay movies on whatever TV it is connected to, including a glassless parallax barrier 2012 model.

Sony will either adopt the new tech or fight it if they have any stake on a competing tech, but it's about the screens, not the consoles. In some ways, the 3DS bringing more limelight on 3D gaming and 3D displays could even work as a benefit for Sony, because the sooner a new expensive TV set can be built by buying a glassless display from the same providers Nintendo uses, the sooner Sony can bring out a new generation of TVs.

Again: the PS3 is not tied to the current glass-needing displays. Sony is not tied to the current display technology for their TVs. Nintendo did not invent the glassless displays, nor they will be their sole users, nor will they develop any special skillset on it that is not technology-agnostic. Please explain how the 3DS is disruptive of Sony's 3D push for home theaters today, including the PS3.

Rephrase it as "3DS is an adopter of a technolgy that poses a disruption threat to the current big 3D screens tech" and I will agree.

Totally agree. Nintendo will greatly benefit from pioneering the cheapest and widest appealing 3D tech for portables, but for the pure and simple fact that home consoles rely on home TVs, whenever that tech (or another glasses-less one) will reach home TVS, it will benefit every console in the same way.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


LordTheNightKnight said:
Aiddon said:

ah Malstrom, the poor man's Game Overthinker.


That phrase implies a higher quality game overthinker, but most of the other game overthinkers are lousy at predictions.

He is talking about THE Game Overthinker, not A game overthinker.  Note the use of capital letters.

http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/



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Alby_da_Wolf said:
Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Smashchu2 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

So 3DS should disrupt both PS3 and 3D TV with glasses...

While we know that glasses 3D won't ever become mainstream, we also know that parallax barrier 3D isn't good too for the living room, you must stay within a precise spot to enjoy the 3D effect.

BTW, both system are stereoscopic ones, they don't imply big differences for games developers, the skills acquired programming for 3DS can be used to port or develop games for whatever other stereoscopic 3D system, differences are mostly handled at graphics and display drivers level, if even necessary.

That is what disruption is. Crappy products for crappy consumers. The 3D will get better and move upstream. All of what has happened cries a disruption.

@Griffen:Have you seen videos of Other M from E3? It is pretty much drama in space. Samus has loads of inner monologues. Character says two sentenses. Monologue. Character says helllo. Monologue. Not to mention how she keeps talking about the "baby." It's just way over the top and is ruining Samus as a character.

Portable console often outsold home ones, but they aren't a replacement for them, parallax barrier is a simple and clever tech, but the size of the grille, its distance from the plane of the pixels and the distanze between users' eyes determine a very narrow zone within which you can enjoy 3D, put this tech in a living room and only one user will be able to view in 3D. Is there a way to evolve this tech to overcome this limit? Maybe, but even if it's the case, 3DS remains a device usable by only one person at a time, due to its screen size and having only one set of controls built-in and not expandable. Moreover, Nintendo doesn't own the tech, it just buys displays from display producers, if they find a way to port that tech to home TVs it will be available to everybody and it won't disrupt PS3, that will be able to use it like anybody else, but 3DTVs with glasses, including Sony ones . Whatever 3D tech will conquer the living room will be, if stereoscopic, readily usable by anyone that was already using stereoscopy, including glasses, otherwise, if it will be not stereoscopic, every console and game producer previously using stereoscopy will have to start on a par with the others and will have to redesign the stage of image generation, parallax barrier gives a great advantage in portable devices, but that advantage isn't transferred to other fields, and what's more, it's a tech very SW compatible with its current competitors, that so won't be left behind, not only, it also doesn't create a barrier for SW developers, so that if they choose 3DS they aren't exclusively locked to it.

So, IMVHO, the potential for disruption exists, if they devise the right refinement of the tech, but towards 3D with glasses (*), not towards home consoles.

(*) That is anyway doomed, whatever 3D tech viable for home TVs not using glasses will be released first, will kill it.

The bolds

You just described a disruption. A disruption is always bad compaired to the incumbent. Sony would see the 3DS as "crappy 3D." The 3D on the 3DS will get better.

You are totally wrong about the second part, and this is why you do not get disruption. Disruption is a value innovation. Disruptors work in that they have new values, namely a asymetric motivation and an asymetric skill. This is also why Christiansen calls them "Disruptive Innovation," verses a "Disruptive Technology," after his first book. Nintendo's 3D will only be absorbed if they lack the skill and the motivation.

The 3DS is disruptive. There is no doubt about it. Look at the very end of Nintendo's press conferense and how many times they say "No more glasses," and the begining of Sony's Press Conference where they talk about the "true 3D experience."

Here is a video to prove my point. Listen to how he hates current 3D and likes the new one.

You are abstracting disruption too much: my main points are that right now parallax barrier isn't viable for home TVs, so it's confined to portables (and so increasing Nintendo strength in that market), and that Nintendo doesn't own that tech.

If and when displays producers refine that tech to the point it's usable on home TVs, it will disrupt without any doubt 3D TVs with glasses (unless they won't have been already disrupted by another glasses-less tech), but those TVs will be usable by ANY console that was already able to deliver stereoscopic 3D.

Whenever that tech will go upmarket in the home TV market, it won't be by any means a Nintendo exclusive. Asymmetric motivation and skill cannot magically give parallax barrier the ability to run on home TVs, but once display producers manage to do it, they'll keep on selling their new TVs and monitors to whoever wants them, not exclusively to Nintendo consoles owners, whenever it will be ready for home TVs, it will be available to everybody, so parallax barrier going upstream will actually benefit Nintendo competitors on home consoles, while currently they are left behind by 3DS on portables. The disruptive potential of 3DS' 3D tech is currently limited to portables, but whenever it goes upmarket to home TV, it will put all the contenders on the same level.

But even if 3DS were disruptive for home consoles, it would be so for EVERY home console, as they are all limited in their 3D possibilities in the same way, by the current 3D home TVs limits.

None of what you say Alby ever makes sense. Not to mention you could cut out half of what you wrote there. Most of it is filler. And you claim you know disruption but don't and have yet to prove otherwise. If fact, I notice that you never mentioned asymetric motivation or skill until after I said it. If you knew disruption, you wouldn't parrot me.

What you keep forgetting is disruption is a value innovation. It doesn't matter if it becomes usable on TVs in the future (which is a long way away anyway) because they don't have the value. When you don't have the value, but except the technology, it's called cramming.

Incumbents usually see the same technologies that entrants do. Because of their processes and values, however, incumbents predictably "cram" the technology into the largest and most obvious market applications.

Nintendo is just disrupting Sony because they are disrupting 3D (this is why you missed the idea and say they have to disrupt everyone. They are going after 3D). Disruption is how businesses fight with one another. This is just another tool to do so.

Also, the reason to use a handheld to disrupt 3D is making it cheaper. Making it more affordable is one way a disruptor attacks the incumbent. That technology on a TV would be very expernsive, and wouldn't work as everyone watches a TV from different angles. But only one person uses a handeld. This is where the disruption is.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. 1)Nintendo is disrupting 3D this time. 2)Nintendo has a different value. if you adopt the technology, but lack the value, you'll cram and will fail.

@Griffin:So, I can say anything about the game until I have played it from begining to end unless tht something is "this is the best game ever. I can't wait to buy it!"