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Forums - Nintendo - Maelstrom calls Yahtzee out... kind of... sort of... in a subdued way.

LordTheNightKnight on 11 December 2009
Vertigo-X said:
Well, I disagree with his assertion that Super Mario 64 is sustaining innovation. With that game, just about everything was changed except for the same basic plot. Gameplay, controls, the levels, and the graphics were all dramatically different from the previous Mario games.

He meant it wasn't disruptive. It seemed to change everything, but as Nintendo fell to a distant second that gen, it was clear Nintendo got disrupted.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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Mr Khan on 11 December 2009

Awh. I kinda wanted to see a confrontation between Malstrom and Yahtzee. Two over-vitriolic over-thinkers of this industry, who have viewpoints which are almost total opposites of each other.

 

We need to get them to do an internet debate, a series of articles (or in Yahtzee's case, videos) that directly attack one another and all they hold dear.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

.jayderyu on 11 December 2009

Yahtzee sucks as a reviewer and tend to be a hypocrite, but damnd that man is funny.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

Final-Fan on 11 December 2009
LordTheNightKnight said:
Vertigo-X said:
Well, I disagree with his assertion that Super Mario 64 is sustaining innovation. With that game, just about everything was changed except for the same basic plot. Gameplay, controls, the levels, and the graphics were all dramatically different from the previous Mario games.

He meant it wasn't disruptive. It seemed to change everything, but as Nintendo fell to a distant second that gen, it was clear Nintendo got disrupted.

Disruptive innovation is successful by definition? 

Also, no, I disagree.  It seems to me that he is clearly basing his reason why those games are "sustaining innovation" based on the games themselves, not how well they do compared to other games.  So it only makes sense that "disruptive innovation" would also be about the approach to the game design.  "Mario 5 goes back almost twenty years towards the gameplay of Super Mario World and Super Mario Brothers 3. The game sheds off the 3d sustaining innovation entirely."  He's not talking about sales here, he's talking about game design. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

LordTheNightKnight on 11 December 2009
Final-Fan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Vertigo-X said:
Well, I disagree with his assertion that Super Mario 64 is sustaining innovation. With that game, just about everything was changed except for the same basic plot. Gameplay, controls, the levels, and the graphics were all dramatically different from the previous Mario games.

He meant it wasn't disruptive. It seemed to change everything, but as Nintendo fell to a distant second that gen, it was clear Nintendo got disrupted.

Disruptive innovation is successful by definition? 

Also, no, I disagree.  It seems to me that he is clearly basing his reason why those games are "sustaining innovation" based on the games themselves, not how well they do compared to other games.  So it only makes sense that "disruptive innovation" would also be about the approach to the game design.  "Mario 5 goes back almost twenty years towards the gameplay of Super Mario World and Super Mario Brothers 3. The game sheds off the 3d sustaining innovation entirely."  He's not talking about sales here, he's talking about game design. 

Yes. If something isn't dusrupted, then you didn't do a disruption. Nintendo changed the gameplay, but it was simply a way to make the games still bigger and better. Plus it was still going along with the movement of the rest of the gaming companies, which cannot be a disruption either way.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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SaviorX on 11 December 2009

I wonder how he feels about the stance Warren Specter or whatever is taking with Epic Mickey.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

richardhutnik on 11 December 2009

How about we worry less about "innovation" and more about being surprised, entertained, and taken places we haven't been before, that is fun, and better than the past. I guess I mean innovation, but not innovation for its own sake.



griffinA on 11 December 2009
richardhutnik said:
How about we worry less about "innovation" and more about being surprised, entertained, and taken places we haven't been before, that is fun, and better than the past. I guess I mean innovation, but not innovation for its own sake.

Certainly, I think Malstrom would agree with you.



"Pier was a chef, a gifted and respected chef who made millions selling his dishes to the residents of New York City and Boston, he even had a famous jingle playing in those cities that everyone knew by heart. He also had a restaurant in Los Angeles, but not expecting LA to have such a massive population he only used his name on that restaurant and left it to his least capable and cheapest chefs. While his New York restaurant sold kobe beef for $100 and his Boston restaurant sold lobster for $50, his LA restaurant sold cheap hotdogs for $30. Initially these hot dogs sold fairly well because residents of los angeles were starving for good food and hoped that the famous name would denote a high quality, but most were disappointed with what they ate. Seeing the success of his cheap hot dogs in LA, Pier thought "why bother giving Los Angeles quality meats when I can oversell them on cheap hotdogs forever, and since I don't care about the product anyways, why bother advertising them? So Pier continued to only sell cheap hotdogs in LA and was surprised to see that they no longer sold. Pier's conclusion? Residents of Los Angeles don't like food."

"The so-called "hardcore" gamer is a marketing brainwashed, innovation shunting, self-righteous idiot who pays videogame makers far too much money than what is delivered."

Final-Fan on 11 December 2009
LordTheNightKnight said:
Final-Fan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Vertigo-X said:
Well, I disagree with his assertion that Super Mario 64 is sustaining innovation. With that game, just about everything was changed except for the same basic plot. Gameplay, controls, the levels, and the graphics were all dramatically different from the previous Mario games.

He meant it wasn't disruptive. It seemed to change everything, but as Nintendo fell to a distant second that gen, it was clear Nintendo got disrupted.

Disruptive innovation is successful by definition? 

Also, no, I disagree.  It seems to me that he is clearly basing his reason why those games are "sustaining innovation" based on the games themselves, not how well they do compared to other games.  So it only makes sense that "disruptive innovation" would also be about the approach to the game design.  "Mario 5 goes back almost twenty years towards the gameplay of Super Mario World and Super Mario Brothers 3. The game sheds off the 3d sustaining innovation entirely."  He's not talking about sales here, he's talking about game design. 

Yes. If something isn't dusrupted, then you didn't do a disruption. Nintendo changed the gameplay, but it was simply a way to make the games still bigger and better. Plus it was still going along with the movement of the rest of the gaming companies, which cannot be a disruption either way.

So there is no such thing as a failed disruption?  Or does a failed disruptive innovation get classified as a sustaining innovation? 

As for the rest, I was looking at it as innovating the Mario series, but I can see your point that it didn't disruptively innovate the software scene at the time, except insofar as it pretty much set all kinds of standards for 3D platforming (maybe arguably disrupting what was already out there?). 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Shadowfest3 on 11 December 2009

Ok, I have to admit to the fact that my first thought was that this topic was going to focus on the dice game...lol. Anyways, very interesting read indeed. I liked the breakdown that was given for the Mario games and the innovations.