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Forums - Gaming - Malstrom: Game Industry tries to justify corruption

Avinash_Tyagi said:
^He was pointing out how Gerstmann has no reason to complain, when he has a cushy assignment

He has what Malstrom thinks is a cushy assignment. Malstrom loves to complain about idiots in the gaming industry... well, Sean, I hate to break it to you but your job is also cushy so NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING AGAIN, EVER.

I agree that Gertmann has a cushy job. Even cushy jobs have parts that people won't like. Gertmann doesn't like traveling and being sequestered. Big deal...




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vanatos said:
l

It does have relevance if one is calling out reviewers trying to state how difficult their job is, especially how painful it is to go on company-paid trips to review games (with paid hotel, food etc).

Once again i see your twisting stuff to suit your particular bias.

And you complain about Maelstrom doing that.

He's attacking them for complaining about their job despite it not being the hardest job in the world. That's like saying you can never complain about being hungry because you aren't a starving child in Africa. Its stupid in other words.



vanatos said:
rocketpig said:
vanatos said:
rocketpig said:

He just tried his hardest to make Jeff Gerstmann look like an ass for no real reason, twisting his words and blowing it all out of proportion. Do you really need me to scrounge up old articles to show where he's done that sort of thing in the past?

Ask yourself this question: was it really necessary to try to make Gerstmann look bad and was it necessary to get his op-ed's point across? If it wasn't necessary, why'd he do it? More importantly, why does he seem to do it so often? This is the third or fourth Malstrom article I've read where I thought the same thing and I generally avoid the guy's writing nowadays.

You do realize that Maelstrom is responding to a kotaku article ABOUT the ethical concerns of company-paid trips to reviewers/journalists?

and that Gerstmann's comments is IN THAT KOTAKU ARTICLE?

When your going to make an opinion piece about game reviewers/journalists and companies paying their trips to games you have to talk about

1.Game reviewers/journalists

2.The companies

And Maelstrom's article IS ABOUT reviewers/journalists downplaying what is (in his opinion) an ethically wrong situation?

It is like you want Maelstrom to talk about reviewers without talking about reviewers.

Yes, because commenting on game reviewers requires one to talk about soldiers in Afghanistan, as if that has the slightest bit of relevance in regards to Gerstmann not enjoying traveling and being sequestered for a game review.

As I said earlier, Malstrom has a point. The way he wrote it only confirmed that he gets off on being an ass.

It does have relevance if one is calling out reviewers trying to state how difficult their job is, especially how painful it is to go on company-paid trips to review games (with paid hotel, food etc).

Once again i see your twisting stuff to suit your particular bias.

And you complain about Maelstrom doing that.

For the third time, where did a reviewer say his job was hard?

And I'm twisting stuff? Jesus Christ, I have to get off this forum today. I'm the one who is pointing out what was actually said by the reviewers and contrasting that with what Malstrom actually wrote in response.




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Avinash_Tyagi said:
noname2200 said:

Which, in a didactic website such as his own, is presumably a large chunk of his readership. Would you feel it was professional for your instructor to turn to the class and say something like "you're all idiots!", even if you knew he was not referring directly to you? If so, I think it's safe to say you're in the minority: most of us would feel that that behavior was inappropriate at best.

But that's not what malstrom is doing, he's referring to those who aren't aware of the disruption shift and aren't reading his articles or blog, those who are praising the games industry

I'm not convinced, but let us assume you're correct. What motivation would those people have to read a website where they're repeatedly insulted? Look at the VGChartz community: there are now the converted who listen to him, and the folks who refuse to listen to him anymore primarily because of his attitude. Any message he has for the latter is lost. Any and all Malstrom threads on this site quickly get sidetracked by discussions about the man rather than the idea, primarily because of his style. What good does that do anyone?

But it's worse than that. Look at this very thread: rocketpig, who once read Malstrom's works, is now so turned off by that unnecessary attitude that he no longer pays the man any attention. Nor is he the only lapsed Malstrom reader. Moreover, Malstrom's detractors, the people who would hate him no matter what style he used, now have ammo to use against him: if HE can resort to ad hominem tactics, fair play dictates that THEY can as well.

And let me be blunt: even for someone who visits his site daily, the abrasive, hostile, self-congratulatory style wears me down. I do not enjoy insults. I do not approve of puerile attacks. And I grossly disapprove of inefficient, self-defeating tactics, especially when the core ideas tend to be so valuable. It is infuriating to see him lie down in the mud, like those he criticizes, and frustrating to interesting ideas tarnished by the manners of the messenger. Had I, a person who is interested in the business side of gaming and who openly harbors a liking for Nintendo, read Malstrom's blog posts before I read his main articles, I can assure you that I would not be visiting his site today. I can hardly blame others for doing what I would have done myself.



Rath said:
vanatos said:
l

It does have relevance if one is calling out reviewers trying to state how difficult their job is, especially how painful it is to go on company-paid trips to review games (with paid hotel, food etc).

Once again i see your twisting stuff to suit your particular bias.

And you complain about Maelstrom doing that.

He's attacking them for complaining about their job despite it not being the hardest job in the world. That's like saying you can never complain about being hungry because you aren't a starving child in Africa. Its stupid in other words.

No, he's attacking them for complaining about going on company-paid trips complete with lush hotels, as a method of trying to downplay the ethical concerns about these company trips.

 

The Kotaku article IS ABOUT the ethical concerns of companies paying reviewers to go to these events.

 

Its like this

1.There is a conflict of interest here

2.Game reviewer: its not that bad, no one really enjoys these events.

 

That is what Maelstrom is attacking, this attitude.



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noname2200 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
noname2200 said:

Which, in a didactic website such as his own, is presumably a large chunk of his readership. Would you feel it was professional for your instructor to turn to the class and say something like "you're all idiots!", even if you knew he was not referring directly to you? If so, I think it's safe to say you're in the minority: most of us would feel that that behavior was inappropriate at best.

But that's not what malstrom is doing, he's referring to those who aren't aware of the disruption shift and aren't reading his articles or blog, those who are praising the games industry

I'm not convinced, but let us assume you're correct. What motivation would those people have to read a website where they're repeatedly insulted? Look at the VGChartz community: there are now the converted who listen to him, and the folks who refuse to listen to him anymore primarily because of his attitude. Any message he has for the latter is lost. Any and all Malstrom threads on this site quickly get sidetracked by discussions about the man rather than the idea, primarily because of his style. What good does that do anyone?

But it's worse than that. Look at this very thread: rocketpig, who once read Malstrom's works, is now so turned off by that unnecessary attitude that he no longer pays the man any attention. Nor is he the only lapsed Malstrom reader. Moreover, Malstrom's detractors, the people who would hate him no matter what style he used, now have ammo to use against him: if HE can resort to ad hominem tactics, fair play dictates that THEY can as well.

And let me be blunt: even for someone who visits his site daily, the abrasive, hostile, self-congratulatory style wears me down. I do not enjoy insults. I do not approve of puerile attacks. And I grossly disapprove of inefficient, self-defeating tactics, especially when the core ideas tend to be so valuable. It is infuriating to see him lie down in the mud, like those he criticizes, and frustrating to interesting ideas tarnished by the manners of the messenger. Had I, a person who is interested in the business side of gaming and who openly harbors a liking for Nintendo, read Malstrom's blog posts before I read his main articles, I can assure you that I would not be visiting his site today. I can hardly blame others for doing what I would have done myself.

What he said. +1, all that.

With that said, I'm going to go play, you know, some video games now.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

vanatos said:

If a website was about why the Iraq war is wrong, and those who supported it were blind, do you even think it is a legitimate complaint if those who support the iraq war, go read the website, and complain it is its readership?

That is your logic.

And as someone who likes results and despises self-destruction, I'm proud to say that yes, that IS my logic.

Assuming I understand the last half of your sentence correctly, I feel no shame in saying that persuading people to see my side of things is much preferable to simply preaching to the converted and stroking my ego by insulting those who disagree with me.



noname2200 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
noname2200 said:

Which, in a didactic website such as his own, is presumably a large chunk of his readership. Would you feel it was professional for your instructor to turn to the class and say something like "you're all idiots!", even if you knew he was not referring directly to you? If so, I think it's safe to say you're in the minority: most of us would feel that that behavior was inappropriate at best.

But that's not what malstrom is doing, he's referring to those who aren't aware of the disruption shift and aren't reading his articles or blog, those who are praising the games industry

I'm not convinced, but let us assume you're correct. What motivation would those people have to read a website where they're repeatedly insulted? Look at the VGChartz community: there are now the converted who listen to him, and the folks who refuse to listen to him anymore primarily because of his attitude. Any message he has for the latter is lost. Any and all Malstrom threads on this site quickly get sidetracked by discussions about the man rather than the idea, primarily because of his style. What good does that do anyone?

But it's worse than that. Look at this very thread: rocketpig, who once read Malstrom's works, is now so turned off by that unnecessary attitude that he no longer pays the man any attention. Nor is he the only lapsed Malstrom reader. Moreover, Malstrom's detractors, the people who would hate him no matter what style he used, now have ammo to use against him: if HE can resort to ad hominem tactics, fair play dictates that THEY can as well.

And let me be blunt: even for someone who visits his site daily, the abrasive, hostile, self-congratulatory style wears me down. I do not enjoy insults. I do not approve of puerile attacks. And I grossly disapprove of inefficient, self-defeating tactics, especially when the core ideas tend to be so valuable. It is infuriating to see him lie down in the mud, like those he criticizes, and frustrating to interesting ideas tarnished by the manners of the messenger. Had I, a person who is interested in the business side of gaming and who openly harbors a liking for Nintendo, read Malstrom's blog posts before I read his main articles, I can assure you that I would not be visiting his site today. I can hardly blame others for doing what I would have done myself.

Given that the people who sidetrack the threads into a discussion of his character, are those who focus TOO MUCH ON THE CHARACTER RATHER THEN THE POINTS.

Your criticism should be against people like yourself making such a fuss over this.



rocketpig said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
^He was pointing out how Gerstmann has no reason to complain, when he has a cushy assignment

He has what Malstrom thinks is a cushy assignment. Malstrom loves to complain about idiots in the gaming industry... well, Sean, I hate to break it to you but your job is also cushy so NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING AGAIN, EVER.

I agree that Gertmann has a cushy job. Even cushy jobs have parts that people won't like. Gertmann doesn't like traveling and being sequestered. Big deal...

Then give me that job, seriously, I would love being able to live in hotel rooms playing video games, and get paid for it, seriously



 

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noname2200 said:
vanatos said:

If a website was about why the Iraq war is wrong, and those who supported it were blind, do you even think it is a legitimate complaint if those who support the iraq war, go read the website, and complain it is its readership?

That is your logic.

And as someone who likes results and despises self-destruction, I'm proud to say that yes, that IS my logic.

Assuming I understand the last half of your sentence correctly, I feel no shame in saying that persuading people to see my side of things is much preferable to simply preaching to the converted and stroking my ego by insulting those who disagree with me.

Then your foolish.

It is not about 'persuading' it is about your claiming he is insulting his readership.

This implies that IS his readership, which it isn't.

That he has some loyalty, or some duty, to this 'readership'.

If i make a website criticising the government for the iraq war, can the government say 'we read your website, this is clearly insulting us, your readership'?

no, that is a ridiculous argument, but it is your argument.