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Forums - Gaming - Malstrom: Game Industry tries to justify corruption

noname2200 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
noname2200 said:

Which, in a didactic website such as his own, is presumably a large chunk of his readership. Would you feel it was professional for your instructor to turn to the class and say something like "you're all idiots!", even if you knew he was not referring directly to you? If so, I think it's safe to say you're in the minority: most of us would feel that that behavior was inappropriate at best.

But that's not what malstrom is doing, he's referring to those who aren't aware of the disruption shift and aren't reading his articles or blog, those who are praising the games industry

I'm not convinced, but let us assume you're correct. What motivation would those people have to read a website where they're repeatedly insulted? Look at the VGChartz community: there are now the converted who listen to him, and the folks who refuse to listen to him anymore primarily because of his attitude. Any message he has for the latter is lost. Any and all Malstrom threads on this site quickly get sidetracked by discussions about the man rather than the idea, primarily because of his style. What good does that do anyone?

But it's worse than that. Look at this very thread: rocketpig, who once read Malstrom's works, is now so turned off by that unnecessary attitude that he no longer pays the man any attention. Nor is he the only lapsed Malstrom reader. Moreover, Malstrom's detractors, the people who would hate him no matter what style he used, now have ammo to use against him: if HE can resort to ad hominem tactics, fair play dictates that THEY can as well.

And let me be blunt: even for someone who visits his site daily, the abrasive, hostile, self-congratulatory style wears me down. I do not enjoy insults. I do not approve of puerile attacks. And I grossly disapprove of inefficient, self-defeating tactics, especially when the core ideas tend to be so valuable. It is infuriating to see him lie down in the mud, like those he criticizes, and frustrating to interesting ideas tarnished by the manners of the messenger. Had I, a person who is interested in the business side of gaming and who openly harbors a liking for Nintendo, read Malstrom's blog posts before I read his main articles, I can assure you that I would not be visiting his site today. I can hardly blame others for doing what I would have done myself.

The ones who refuse to get past his attitude are the ones who lose out, because he's going to be right whether they listen or not.

Ah, he's not using Ah Homoniem attacks, he's actually attacking the points, you could say he's arguing ad absurdum, I believe its called, but its not Ad Homoniem

He himself admists his blog is much less professional than his articles, blogs usually are, but one can easily find and read his articles if they so wish to do so.

You can lead a horsed to water but you can't make them drink, its is the fault of those who dislike him if they do not at least read first then make an opinion

 



 

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rocketpig said:

He just tried his hardest to make Jeff Gerstmann look like an ass for no real reason, twisting his words and blowing it all out of proportion. Do you really need me to scrounge up old articles to show where he's done that sort of thing in the past?

Ask yourself this question: was it really necessary to try to make Gerstmann look bad and was it necessary to get his op-ed's point across? If it wasn't necessary, why'd he do it? More importantly, why does he seem to do it so often? This is the third or fourth Malstrom article I've read where I thought the same thing and I generally avoid the guy's writing nowadays.

Gerstmann is at least an apt target for this sort of thing, though i agree that Malstrom was being a bit unfair, he was being as such to people who really haven't made any effort to be likeable in the past.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Avinash_Tyagi said:

The ones who refuse to get past his attitude are the ones who lose out, because he's going to be right whether they listen or not.

Ah, he's not using Ah Homoniem attacks, he's actually attacking the points, you could say he's arguing ad absurdum, I believe its called, but its not Ad Homoniem

He himself admists his blog is much less professional than his articles, blogs usually are, but one can easily find and read his articles if they so wish to do so.

You can lead a horsed to water but you can't make them drink, its is the fault of those who dislike him if they do not at least read first then make an opinion

 

I understand your viewpoint, even though I don't agree with it. For what it's worth, I DO agree that those people are missing out, but I find it unfortunate that we could have a much larger pool of people who listen and discuss his ideas than we do now. And is it fair to state that you agree that a different style could have created a larger reader-base for him, even if you believe it's more of their loss than his?

vanatos said:

Then your foolish.

It is not about 'persuading' it is about your claiming he is insulting his readership.

This implies that IS his readership, which it isn't.

 http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?post=2900297&page=2&postnum=16

It's not uncommon for him to refer to entire categories of gamers (and occasionally non-gamers) in perjorative terms. On occasion, he even addresses a fictional reader of his website with those same terms.

 

vanatos said:

That he has some loyalty, or some duty, to this 'readership'.

If i make a website criticising the government for the iraq war, can the government say 'we read your website, this is clearly insulting us, your readership'?

no, that is a ridiculous argument, but it is your argument.

Is a government a person? Can a government read?

If you made your website a criticism of our current Administration, and it contained a series of insults directed towards Barack Obama, would he thereafter give you the time of day?

 

If I made a post in this thread calling you ridiculous and a fool, would you care to listen to me?



noname2200 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

The ones who refuse to get past his attitude are the ones who lose out, because he's going to be right whether they listen or not.

Ah, he's not using Ah Homoniem attacks, he's actually attacking the points, you could say he's arguing ad absurdum, I believe its called, but its not Ad Homoniem

He himself admists his blog is much less professional than his articles, blogs usually are, but one can easily find and read his articles if they so wish to do so.

You can lead a horsed to water but you can't make them drink, its is the fault of those who dislike him if they do not at least read first then make an opinion


I understand your viewpoint, even though I don't agree with it. For what it's worth, I DO agree that those people are missing out, but I find it unfortunate that we could have a much larger pool of people who listen and discuss his ideas than we do now. And is it fair to state that you agree that a different style could have created a larger reader-base for him, even if you believe it's more of their loss than his?

vanatos said:

Then your foolish.

It is not about 'persuading' it is about your claiming he is insulting his readership.

This implies that IS his readership, which it isn't.

 http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?post=2900297&page=2&postnum=16

It's not uncommon for him to refer to entire categories of gamers (and occasionally non-gamers) in perjorative terms. On occasion, he even addresses a fictional reader of his website with those same terms.


vanatos said:

That he has some loyalty, or some duty, to this 'readership'.

If i make a website criticising the government for the iraq war, can the government say 'we read your website, this is clearly insulting us, your readership'?

no, that is a ridiculous argument, but it is your argument.

Is a government a person? Can a government read?

If you made your website a criticism of our current Administration, and it contained a series of insults directed towards Barack Obama, would he thereafter give you the time of day?


If I made a post in this thread calling you ridiculous and a fool, would you care to listen to me?

1.If you made a thread calling me ridiculous and a fool, i would read it, whether i listen to you depends on the points you make about me.

2.Maelstrom despises (as do i, and i am one of them) the 'hardcore gamers' that act elitist, although i am not elitist, i classify myself as a hardcore gamer too, sometimes i act elitist though.

3. If an american writes about social problems in communities IN AMERICA, you going to claim this is wrong because he is attacking his 'readership'? that since he writes about large segments of Americans, and he is American, this is faulty?

Your logic is very flawed, and i am having a hard time understanding how you can consider it coherent.

I do not see Maelstrom, asking for aid, or asking for 'fans' or praising 'fans' or anything like that, that would qualify or necessitate him having some duty or loyalty to any group, let alone any particular type of gamer.






rocketpig said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
rocketpig said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"Comparing game reviewers to soldiers is just stupid"

No, just as a counterpoint to the claim the job of a reviewer is hard.

Reading comprehension FTL.

Where did the reviewer say that his job was hard?

You guys are letting Malstrom put words in the reviewer's mouth, completely misinterpret what he said, and you don't seem to even notice...

Not those exact words, but the various comments:

"I'd driven a hundred miles to get there, to play Infinity Ward and Activision's blockbuster shooter for a review. It was my second time sequestering myself in a hotel room to evaluate a video game."

"There's nothing lavish about being cooped up in a dark hotel room for two days. It's annoying," Gerstmann says. "And unless you have direct questions about a game, the company reps at the event usually just stay out of your way. Most of the time they don't even ask us what we thought of the game. They just sort of hang back and, I guess, hope for the best."

"I sort of get the impression that no one involved on either side really enjoys these events," Gerstmann adds. "But between us wanting timely coverage and publishers feeling protective of their biggest releases, I don't see these events going away anytime soon, either."

So the guy didn't like having to do that (and again, I don't blame him, I wouldn't care for it either) and therefore he deserves to have his quotes blown completely out of proportion and made to look like an ass as if he was comparing his job to that of a soldier's?

You guys just aren't seeing it. Malstrom is the one being a giant douchebag... again. This isn't the first time I've seen him take someone else's rather innocuous quote and snarl it into a malicious rant, completely making the person look like an asshole in the process. He seems to get off on taking a simple quote and trying to make someone into a villain over it... and the readers eat it up.

The guy is an asshole and I don't know how some of you read his stuff.

you must realize the words you use to describe Malstrom fit you like a hand to a glove



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mhsillen said:
rocketpig said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
rocketpig said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"Comparing game reviewers to soldiers is just stupid"

No, just as a counterpoint to the claim the job of a reviewer is hard.

Reading comprehension FTL.

Where did the reviewer say that his job was hard?

You guys are letting Malstrom put words in the reviewer's mouth, completely misinterpret what he said, and you don't seem to even notice...

Not those exact words, but the various comments:

"I'd driven a hundred miles to get there, to play Infinity Ward and Activision's blockbuster shooter for a review. It was my second time sequestering myself in a hotel room to evaluate a video game."

"There's nothing lavish about being cooped up in a dark hotel room for two days. It's annoying," Gerstmann says. "And unless you have direct questions about a game, the company reps at the event usually just stay out of your way. Most of the time they don't even ask us what we thought of the game. They just sort of hang back and, I guess, hope for the best."

"I sort of get the impression that no one involved on either side really enjoys these events," Gerstmann adds. "But between us wanting timely coverage and publishers feeling protective of their biggest releases, I don't see these events going away anytime soon, either."

So the guy didn't like having to do that (and again, I don't blame him, I wouldn't care for it either) and therefore he deserves to have his quotes blown completely out of proportion and made to look like an ass as if he was comparing his job to that of a soldier's?

You guys just aren't seeing it. Malstrom is the one being a giant douchebag... again. This isn't the first time I've seen him take someone else's rather innocuous quote and snarl it into a malicious rant, completely making the person look like an asshole in the process. He seems to get off on taking a simple quote and trying to make someone into a villain over it... and the readers eat it up.

The guy is an asshole and I don't know how some of you read his stuff.

you must realize the words you use to describe Malstrom fit you like a hand to a glove

Now you are personally insulting another poster =/



Rath said:

Now you are personally insulting another poster =/

 

Is is really an insult when somebody who is supposedly respecting Malstrom calls other commenter acting as Malstrom does? xD



vanatos said:

1.If you made a thread calling me ridiculous and a fool, i would read it, whether i listen to you depends on the points you make about me.

2.Maelstrom despises (as do i, and i am one of them) the 'hardcore gamers' that act elitist, although i am not elitist, i classify myself as a hardcore gamer too, sometimes i act elitist though.

3. If an american writes about social problems in communities IN AMERICA, you going to claim this is wrong because he is attacking his 'readership'? that since he writes about large segments of Americans, and he is American, this is faulty?

Your logic is very flawed, and i am having a hard time understanding how you can consider it coherent.

I do not see Maelstrom, asking for aid, or asking for 'fans' or praising 'fans' or anything like that, that would qualify or necessitate him having some duty or loyalty to any group, let alone any particular type of gamer.

Ah, I see the problem here, number three makes it clear. You think "criticize" and "insult" are synonyms.

They are not.



noname2200 said:
vanatos said:

1.If you made a thread calling me ridiculous and a fool, i would read it, whether i listen to you depends on the points you make about me.

2.Maelstrom despises (as do i, and i am one of them) the 'hardcore gamers' that act elitist, although i am not elitist, i classify myself as a hardcore gamer too, sometimes i act elitist though.

3. If an american writes about social problems in communities IN AMERICA, you going to claim this is wrong because he is attacking his 'readership'? that since he writes about large segments of Americans, and he is American, this is faulty?

Your logic is very flawed, and i am having a hard time understanding how you can consider it coherent.

I do not see Maelstrom, asking for aid, or asking for 'fans' or praising 'fans' or anything like that, that would qualify or necessitate him having some duty or loyalty to any group, let alone any particular type of gamer.

Ah, I see the problem here, number three makes it clear. You think "criticize" and "insult" are synonyms.

They are not.

They are not? to you and everyone else here that criticises Maelstrom it is.

 

I'll take your words.

"Most of us find it grating; arrogance is difficult to stomach when it comes from a person who you don't need to listen to (and even when you do have to listen to the person). Additionally, calling your readers "idiots," "fools," etc. is not a wise way to get people to listen to you. There's more, but to summarize: people often have better things to do than listen to someone insult them or pleasure himself to his own written words."

 

1.You choose to criticise Maelstrom

2.You attack his manner

This is exactly what Maelstrom is doing, is not Maelstrom saying the reviewer is essentially 'whining to downplay an issue'?

You call Maelstrom's actions arrogant, Maelstrom calls a reviewers actions 'phony and whiny'.

No difference.

Just because Maelstrom elaborates on it more then you doesn't change this fact.

 



Avinash_Tyagi said:
rocketpig said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
^He was pointing out how Gerstmann has no reason to complain, when he has a cushy assignment

He has what Malstrom thinks is a cushy assignment. Malstrom loves to complain about idiots in the gaming industry... well, Sean, I hate to break it to you but your job is also cushy so NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING AGAIN, EVER.

I agree that Gertmann has a cushy job. Even cushy jobs have parts that people won't like. Gertmann doesn't like traveling and being sequestered. Big deal...

Then give me that job, seriously, I would love being able to live in hotel rooms playing video games, and get paid for it, seriously

Ahem, you really aren't the epythom of objectivity :P

 



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