In terms of costing for standalone players, I agree that HD-DVD has the advantage.

However, the manufacturing cost advantage for HD-DVD is also diminishing

http://pioneer.jp/press/release186.html

Pioneer had a press release on Sept 18, 2007, about how they are using organic dye recording film on Blu Ray discs, and that it should greatly decrease manufacturing costs.

"Discs with organic dye do not require large-scale investments in facilities so that the current coating facilities for CD-R and DVD-R can be used for BD production lines with only minor adjustments, making low priced discs a possibility."

So now Blu-Ray doesn't require new manufacturing lines, but existing CD/DVD lines with minor adjustments.

Features, yeah Blu-Ray is still catching up, should be about as equal as HD DVD come Oct 31st. I've never heard anything about the complexity for programming BD-J compared to HD-i, do you have any source for that?

@whyser:

That press release relates to BD-R recordable discs; these are not the same as the commercially released BD-ROM discs.

For links to BD-java vs HDi:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136253/article.html

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9689600

From the first:

"BD-Java is a programming language. The benefit is that it's very flexible. The drawback is that you may need 100 lines of BD-Java code. HDi is a relatively compact piece of code; one command can cover quite a bit of interactivity.

BD-Java is also more complex, so the possibility of errors is greater. And when BD players are put out, [there's the question of whether] they all support the scenarios as coded up from the low level. [Some of the early problems with BD-Java discs] were in part due to the complexity that BD-Java brings. From our point of view, HDi offers all of the flexibility we need, in practice, and it does so in a more simplified way and in a way that we feel leads to better compatibility, better reliability, and lower costs. "

From the second:

"Engineers who’ve worked with both formats say Blu-ray is a pig to program. While extremely flexible, its programming language, BD-Java, requires lots of low-level code for even the simplest of instructions. The highly skilled programmers needed to do the job don’t exactly grow on trees. And because of the program’s complexity, even the best produce their share of bug-ridden software. 

By comparison, writing software for HD DVD using Microsoft’s HDi interactive technology is a doddle—with one simple command doing the task of scores of lines of BD-Java. More importantly, HDi is the key to HD DVD’s better navigation around menus, and its instinctive ability to interact with the outside world.

Thanks to the internet connection built into all HD DVD players, Toshiba machines allow users to do all sorts of nifty things—like re-edit films, participate in online polls and download trailers. Increasingly, it’s beginning to look as though, after the initial attraction of high-definition’s much sharper picture, interactivity is going to be the deciding factor that determines the outcome of the current format war."

Thanks for the links...

So BD-J offers more flexibility, but requires more lines of code to do the same thing that you could in HDi, which leaves more room for error...

Don't you think that these issues are only temporary? I can see that it may be a bit of a pain to program for initially, but once programmers are able to create a set of standard libraries, this shouldn't be much of a problem anymore (I would be extremely surprised if it did). And I don't think it will take too long to create a set of standard libraries to program in BD-J.

@whyser:

Not really. BD-Java requires skilled programmers, while HDi does not, thereby lowering the costs involved in production. Even if BD-Java offers additional flexibility down the line, the inconsistent nature of the hardware spec makes it a leery proposition for both studios and consumers alike. Why expend extra time and money on a feature that is not guaranteed to work on every player, and which may require even more time with testing and bug-fixes? There have been no compatibility issues with any of the advanced HD-DVD features, due to the fact that they have a finalized spec. Even though the new Blu-ray profile goes into effect October 31, that only applies to new players produced after that date. So are early adopters out of luck? Will the profile change again? Will studios bother to apply these features when they have had so little experience with them thus far?

@goosegaws:

BD-J may require some "skilled" programmers in the beginning, but like I said, once the initial libraries are developed, it's basically cut-and-paste, at which point, they won't need skilled developers anymore, unless they are planning to add NEW interactive features that BD-J or HDi don't currently have. Again the cost-savings advantage is only temporary, you won't constantly require highly skilled Java programmers (besides, there are millions of Java programmers out there).

HDi is basically a scripting language as compared to BD-J which is a full-on programming language. In this sense HDi will be limited on what it can do in the future.

As for early adopters, a lot of them simply require firmware updates to play discs that they were having problems with earlier, and which will also be the case when Profile 1.1 comes out. Of course, not all of them will be equipped with things such as an ethernet port, but that doesn't mean that a Blu-Ray player can't do it's most important function... play the damn movie.

Some players have indeed had problems with playing the movie itself. Again, all these arguments are based around excusing a product that has had a far greater number of problems than it should have amid claims that eventually, it will be complete and reliable. Consumers should not have to worry about whether the discs or features will work with their player. The problem is that the BDA rushed to market with an unfinished spec bolstered by a lot of lofty promises, and I find that to be unacceptable. It is, of course, characteristic of Sony's attitude that they can do whatever they want and that you'd be a fool not to go along with them.

Just get a PS3. You get the added bonus of having a video game machine even if you arent really interested in games.......I asume you are however as you are on a game site. As for the comments about Dreamworks/Paramount, that is a 1 year deal, and it hasnt helped HD-DVD at all. Blu-ray movies and players are still outselling HD-DVD by 2-1 or more margin. There is way more support for BD, and its ever growing. Panasonis is even releasing a in-dash BD player for your car.

Sears - Black Friday - $169 Toshiba HD DVD player!!

$169 + 5 HD DVD offer!!

http://www.blackfriday.info/ads/sears-black-friday-ad.html

Again, we see why Sony is BD, and M$ is supporting HD-DVD. PS3 is more complex and gives devs access to the hardware, BD is is the same giving much more freedom to the devs making applications for BD-Java. While HD-DVD is easy to program for, as is the 360 yet lacks the ability to advance much from what it is right now. Again I say BD would be the way to go. Gaming console aside, BD in general is just a better format. It already has a larger capacity, and will always best its rival, it has all the same features and then some and it has a scratch coat to protect the media from scratching.