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Forums - General - $198 HD-DVD Player Spotted at Wal-Mart

Avinash_Tyagi said:
Are you talking about Costco?

Nah, it dealt with like nothing btu really expensive stuff.  Like stuff your average person couldn't afford even heavily discounted.



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I fully believe that if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray end up "co-existing" and there are enough of both installed in homes, ALL movie houses will go dual format with the exception of Sony. Disney, for instance, would be a fool to ignore millions of players on HD-DVD if it turns out there are millions of units purchased over the next year.

Personally I'd like to see an open-source royalty-free format adopted by some large body. Without royalties, the battle ends immediately. ALL publishers of content will publish when it is FREE to do so...



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Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

kn said:
I fully believe that if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray end up "co-existing" and there are enough of both installed in homes, ALL movie houses will go dual format with the exception of Sony. Disney, for instance, would be a fool to ignore millions of players on HD-DVD if it turns out there are millions of units purchased over the next year.

Personally I'd like to see an open-source royalty-free format adopted by some large body. Without royalties, the battle ends immediately. ALL publishers of content will publish when it is FREE to do so...

 There's almost no way that they would "co-exist". No retailer/rental chain/studio wants to have to stock/order/produce everything three times (DVD ain't going anywhere). Rental chains in particular will be the biggest push towards one format or the other. As for studios supporting both, that just seems to be because they're trying to play it safe or are in contractual deals to do so. As soon as one format seems to really take a lead, expect the other to be dumped like me on prom night.



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

vizunary said:
Lingyis said:
vizunary said:
 

 

@lingysis, i see your point with 24fps, but the interlaced display still only has the ability to refresh 540 lines at a time. from all the HD research i've done my understanding is that the video processor in an interlaced display cannot refresh the lines consecutively like progressive scan does. i may be incorrect, but i believe i understand the tech correctly.

well, entroper already answered it. i'll just repeat in a wordier way.

yes, interlaced means half of 1080 lines = 540 lines at a time, and like you said, does not refresh lines like progressive which would be 1080 lines at a time. however, updates are done at 60 times every second. this means that for 24fps movies, you have more refreshes than is necessary. essentially you need to "stretch" each movie frame into either 3 or 2 refreshes, which is what entroper meant by "3:2 pulldown".

so your 1080p TV is working with more information than really necessary. therefore, as long as your TV does the right thing with the signal (which according to some isn't always the case), there would be zero visual difference between a 1080i and a 1080p video ouput source, on 24fps movies.


 

that does make some sense, i guess i'm not visualising it correctly... i still think that in heavy, fast paced action films(which many use a 60fps signal) there would be a noticeable difference, at least to enthusiasts. you're very probably correct in saying most people would never notice. i happened to notice when i was picking out my tv, then again i can see the red, blue, and green shades on a LCD display and the "rainbow" effect on DLP sets, so i'm not the norm. BTW, you guys thinking this is somehow a death nell for BLU-RAY, think again. the Toshiba A2(this model) has been $199 w/rebate for quite some time alread, it's nothing new, just a little more accessible is all.

 I believe the overwhelmingly vast majority of films are encoded at 24fps.  One of the movie publishers experimented with higher frame rates when there were fast-panning scenes.  I dont' recall the publisher but I only saw it in a few films and it was definitely "wierd" because all of a sudden, everything was sharper and then it went away when the action/panning stopped.

I'm not aware of any other use of framerates higher than 24fps for a major motion picture relase though that doesn't mean they aren't out there.  I'm also not aware of any major CGI movie being shot at anything other than 24fps.  Cars and Incredibles -- two Disney exclusives, are both 24fps.  So is Shrek.

As far as your assertion of interlace vs. progressive, it is true that progressive beats interlace on a CRT.  That doesn't apply to digital sets like LCDs and Plasmas.  My understanding of this is that LCDs and Plasmas are inherently progressive because they don't scan images onto the screen like a CRT but instead display the entire image all at once.

The "1080i and 1080P are the same" argument holds as long as the source is 30fps or less, and either the display or the source provide for proper de-interlacing so the image is displayed without loss.

You'll definitely need to do more research but after having read a LOT of articles, my understanding is that on an LCD or Plasma, 1080i or 1080p, with proper deinterlacing, are identical for movies recorded at 24FPS. 



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

What is better? LCD or plasma?



 

 2008 end of year predictions:

PS3: 22M

360: 25M

wii: 40M

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I don't get why a movie company would pay to render 60fps. That would take over double the amount of rendering time which would cost a ton of money and add significant delays to the production schedule.



zackblue said:
What is better? LCD or plasma?

LCD projector. Cheap and all you need is a huge wall to project it on. It's the only way to game.

@ Shams: Yeah, getting those 9 HD DVDs are sweet. I figure if HD DVD bellies up, I have gotten my money's worth anyhow. And ... being region-free is a big deal to me too. Why in the world are those measures still in place anyhow? Why have region-encoded movies - just let them play on all players, I say ...



zackblue said:
What is better? LCD or plasma?

I think that's sort of asking like what's better -- blonde or brunette... I belive you will find Plasmas overall have a better black level than LCDs and render standard definition images better than LCDs do.  Plasmas are somewhat prone to burn-in but the newer sets seem to be very good about avoiding the issue.  LCDs don't have any burn-in issues but black levels aren't as good unless you get a better set.  I don't think you can go wrong either way but I went 1080P LCD because I want to use it regularly as a computer monitor and burn-in concerned me since the images are quite static on the applications I'll be running.

 

here's a good primer for you

http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,240036500,00.htm 



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

Bodhesatva said:

Ugh, every time I read news like this -- whether it be good news for HD DVD or Blu Ray -- I think to myself: "god, what an awful, bloody, expensive mess this format war is."

I don't see either format becoming dominant any time soon, now. The HD DVD stand alone players will clearly outstrip the Blu Ray ones, I think; at the same time, the PS3 is such a dominating for in the HD video market that it's hard to imagine Blu Ray ever really losing.

At my Toys R Us store, you'd better bet I emphasize the Blu Ray capabilities of the PS3 to potential buyers, and I use it as an important and distinguishing feature from the 360.  Even knowing that a large portion of buyers don't know or care about the Blu Ray capability, the fact that even a fraction of that 5+ million DO care puts Blu Ray players on top by a sizable margin. Heck, even 5 percent of users would be enough to give Blu Ray a noticable lead. 

If I had to guess, at this point, I think both HD DVD and Blu Ray will accrue enough market share within 2 years time that neither can really eliminate the other -- the big problem is movie libraries. If I buy an HD DVD Player for 200 now, the big problem later on isn't buying a 100-150 dollar Blu Ray player in 3 years; it's replacing all the HD DVD movies I already have in my library, or vice versa. That just isn't happening unless one of gains an overwhelming advantage. Thus, I'm now betting on dual-players being the ultimate winner, and both HD DVD and Blu Ray being viable mediums for a long time. That would be a first -- I'm sure neither Sony nor Toshiba considers that their best case scenario -- but I don't think we've ever had two formats compete so viciously before.


Reminds me of betamax vs VHS. Betamax was actually the superior format technically, yet VHS wins in the long run (after several years).

But, those tapes were different sizes, so you couldn't really have a dual-format player. Now with these identical disc sizes all you have to do is cram the technology to read both discs in there (in 5 years they will both have $39 versions at wal-mart anyway).



kn said:
I fully believe that if HD-DVD and Blu-Ray end up "co-existing" and there are enough of both installed in homes, ALL movie houses will go dual format with the exception of Sony. Disney, for instance, would be a fool to ignore millions of players on HD-DVD if it turns out there are millions of units purchased over the next year.

Personally I'd like to see an open-source royalty-free format adopted by some large body. Without royalties, the battle ends immediately. ALL publishers of content will publish when it is FREE to do so...

It will never be "free" to publish content. You still need to pay for the discs and packaging and shipping and stuff.