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Forums - General - $198 HD-DVD Player Spotted at Wal-Mart

NJ5 on 27 October 2007

It's 1080i only? Who cares, most people who have HDTVs only have 720p or 1080i... 1080p is really only for very big TVs.

It seems that this promotion is for the Toshiba A2 player, which is $230 at Amazon.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

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epsilon72 on 27 October 2007
vizunary said:
whatever said:
Even if you have a 1080p TV, it doesn't matter for movies at all. 1080i and 1080p input to a 1080p TV for movies will look identical. This is due to the fact that movies are filmed at 24fps and the 1080p displays accept 1080i/1080p at 60fps. I had a quote somewhere.

Found it.

Below is Evan Powell's (Projector Central) appraisal of the 1080i vs 1080p controversy.

"The truth is this: The Toshiba HD-DVD player outputs 1080i, and the Samsung Blu-ray player outputs both 1080i and 1080p. What they fail to mention is that it makes absolutely no difference which transmission format you use—feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture. So this notion that the Blu-ray player is worth more money due to 1080p output is nonsense."

 

sorry, that is not correct for displays. progressive scan means the tv refreshes the image one line after the other, progressively, every 60th of a second. interlaced means the tv refreshes 540 lines in a 60th of a second , then the other 540 lines in another 60th of a second, the entire process taking one 30th of a second. that means it takes twice as long for the entire screen to be refreshed. you should just go to wiki to understand the undeniable physics behind the different technology. there may not be a huge difference but it's still there. a 1080i display is simply UNABLE to "reassemble them into their original progressive scan order." it is not possible. @makingmusic, i don't think you'll see LotR anytime soon, Jackson's being an ass in some legal dispute with new line... hell we'll probably see star wars first.

whatever probably said that because movies are shot at 24hz, so if the entire deinterlace-and-integrate-one-whole-frame process can be done at 30hz, it *shouldn't* matter.

 

1080i still doesn't look quite as sharp on my 1080p display though - but the deinterlacer/scaler is probably to blame for that. 

 



madskillz on 27 October 2007

Regardless, it's an HD DVD player. You can whine and moan about quality, but it's light-years better than a regular - or even upconverting DVD player.

And when it comes down to it, I am curious as to the shop where you rich types shop at. There's nothing wrong with Wal-Mart - and it's selling the same stuff the bigger guys are selling, at much higher prices. And it's the best place to land any console.



Entroper on 27 October 2007

Well, I posted this in another thread, but it'll probably get locked because this thread already slipped past me.  Circuit City has the same offer, so for those of you saying "This would mean a lot more at some place like Best Buy", here you go.



http://entroper.no-ip.org

whatever on 27 October 2007
vizunary said:
whatever said:
Even if you have a 1080p TV, it doesn't matter for movies at all. 1080i and 1080p input to a 1080p TV for movies will look identical. This is due to the fact that movies are filmed at 24fps and the 1080p displays accept 1080i/1080p at 60fps. I had a quote somewhere.

Found it.

Below is Evan Powell's (Projector Central) appraisal of the 1080i vs 1080p controversy.

"The truth is this: The Toshiba HD-DVD player outputs 1080i, and the Samsung Blu-ray player outputs both 1080i and 1080p. What they fail to mention is that it makes absolutely no difference which transmission format you use—feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture. So this notion that the Blu-ray player is worth more money due to 1080p output is nonsense."

 

sorry, that is not correct for displays. progressive scan means the tv refreshes the image one line after the other, progressively, every 60th of a second. interlaced means the tv refreshes 540 lines in a 60th of a second , then the other 540 lines in another 60th of a second, the entire process taking one 30th of a second. that means it takes twice as long for the entire screen to be refreshed. you should just go to wiki to understand the undeniable physics behind the different technology. there may not be a huge difference but it's still there. a 1080i display is simply UNABLE to "reassemble them into their original progressive scan order." it is not possible. @makingmusic, i don't think you'll see LotR anytime soon, Jackson's being an ass in some legal dispute with new line... hell we'll probably see star wars first.
 

My point was that if you have a 1080p display, for movies it doesn't matter whether the INPUT is 1080i or 1080p.

 Yes, a 1080p display will look better than a 1080i display.  But a 1080p source to a 1080p display will look EXACTLY the same as a 1080i source to a 1080p display.  Note that this only applies to movies, because they are encoded at 24fps.  But since that's what we are talking about with this player, it definitely applies.

 



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Entroper on 27 October 2007
whatever said:

My point was that if you have a 1080p display, for movies it doesn't matter whether the INPUT is 1080i or 1080p.

Yes, a 1080p display will look better than a 1080i display. But a 1080p source to a 1080p display will look EXACTLY the same as a 1080i source to a 1080p display. Note that this only applies to movies, because they are encoded at 24fps. But since that's what we are talking about with this player, it definitely applies.

 


Assuming your 1080p display offers 3:2 pulldown to reconstruct the 1080p image, this is true. I would hope most, if not all, 1080p displays have this, though.

Also, while most film material is 24 frames per second, some isn't. A lot of movies have computer generated imagery running at 60 fps, and for that you'd want a 1080p signal.



http://entroper.no-ip.org

makingmusic476 on 27 October 2007
Kwaad said:
I would say that is the Toshiba 1080i HD-DVD player. Considering 1080i uses 'half' the data of 1080p, I would say that it's a decent price. But the 400$ PS3 is equally decent price. However it supports future updates.

However as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. If you buy shit at wal-mart, you are either too low-class to understand quality, too stupid, or too poor to give a damn, and only buying 'HD' because it says 'HD' and it's what the rich bitches like me are getting, and dont know the diffrence from Plasma, to DLP, and cant tell the quality diffrence from a Samsung LCD, to a Vizam.

Oh wait, at wal-mart all the HD-TVs are hooked up through Coax running SHITTY SD video feed. For some reason, the Vizams look better than the samsungs as well. Yet every review of the Samsung says how great it looks, and the Vizam talk about how BAD they look, but how CHEAP they are.

How come at wal-mart they look the same? wtf?

Trashy store, trashy people, trashy products. Overall I think this is gonna help HD-DVD a whole lot. The question is, why isnt it anywhere else on the internet? (not saying your lying, it's just not a corperate wide thing obviously) And if it's not corperate wide... it's not gonna make a big diffrence.

Good move HD-DVD. Price a shit product for the 25% of people who think their getting a deal, because their too stupid, and incompetent to know the diffrence. Good Job HD-DVD, for takeing advantage of america's lower class, dumber people. Congrats.

That brought another point to my attention. After these people fork over $200 for a player, how many are going to be buying a lot of $25 movies afterwards? I can see a few movies here and there, but nothing substantial.

Even if they do sell a lot of SAL players, it may not give Warner the convincing they need to go HD DVD exclusive, which is the only way HD DVD can truly survive.



Kwaad on 27 October 2007
whatever said:
vizunary said:
whatever said:
Even if you have a 1080p TV, it doesn't matter for movies at all. 1080i and 1080p input to a 1080p TV for movies will look identical. This is due to the fact that movies are filmed at 24fps and the 1080p displays accept 1080i/1080p at 60fps. I had a quote somewhere.

Found it.

Below is Evan Powell's (Projector Central) appraisal of the 1080i vs 1080p controversy.

"The truth is this: The Toshiba HD-DVD player outputs 1080i, and the Samsung Blu-ray player outputs both 1080i and 1080p. What they fail to mention is that it makes absolutely no difference which transmission format you use—feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture. So this notion that the Blu-ray player is worth more money due to 1080p output is nonsense."

 

sorry, that is not correct for displays. progressive scan means the tv refreshes the image one line after the other, progressively, every 60th of a second. interlaced means the tv refreshes 540 lines in a 60th of a second , then the other 540 lines in another 60th of a second, the entire process taking one 30th of a second. that means it takes twice as long for the entire screen to be refreshed. you should just go to wiki to understand the undeniable physics behind the different technology. there may not be a huge difference but it's still there. a 1080i display is simply UNABLE to "reassemble them into their original progressive scan order." it is not possible. @makingmusic, i don't think you'll see LotR anytime soon, Jackson's being an ass in some legal dispute with new line... hell we'll probably see star wars first.

My point was that if you have a 1080p display, for movies it doesn't matter whether the INPUT is 1080i or 1080p.

Yes, a 1080p display will look better than a 1080i display. But a 1080p source to a 1080p display will look EXACTLY the same as a 1080i source to a 1080p display. Note that this only applies to movies, because they are encoded at 24fps. But since that's what we are talking about with this player, it definitely applies.

 


 Yes, you are right, theoreticaly, you could get the same 'picture' out of 1080i and a 1080p source. However due to re-formatting to 1080i, and then BACK to 1080i, there will be substantial loss of image quality. Here's how I feel about it.

1080p from disc... decompressed, sent to TV, I see it.

Not, 1080p from disc, de-compressed, re-formatted, sent to TV, remormatted, I see it.

 But hey, were talking about wal-mart people. My father-in-law, a local imbred as I like to call them.

Bought a Polarid (I think) 26 or 32 inch TV from wal-mart, and was bitching about how 'HDTV' sucks, and how the reception is horrible. I told him. 'Your TV dont have a digital tuner. You cant watch HDTV on that TV, without a special tuner box.'

He was like "that is stupid. Why is this a HDTV then, if it cant play HDTV?!'

There's the southern mentality buying a 800$ TV they dont understand. 



PSN ID: Kwaad


I fly this flag in victory!

king_of_the_castle on 27 October 2007
Kwaad said:
whatever said:
vizunary said:
whatever said:

 

 

 But hey, were talking about wal-mart people. My father-in-law, a local imbred as I like to call them.


Does that make your husband inbred too?

BTW, Walmart sells PS3's too...



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Pk9394 on 27 October 2007

is there a point arguing 1080p and 1080i when the professinal at every website say its identical?????

fanboy need to stop and come back to reality, I understand you like to support the format or ps3 but trying to convince people that movie on blue ray is better because its 1080p???? thats a little too far.

having bigger space to put 7.1 sound dont matter to the mass majority of people, to fully experience the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 you'll need very expensive equipements and how many people got a two thousand dollar amp ??? and a thousand dollar speakers???? dont tell me you can feeel the difference on few houndred dollar crap recievers and speakers set. I bet you my 2k 5.1 amp and 1k speaker sound better than most of the crap 7.1 system out there.