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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Natal launch details leak from secret Microsoft tour

JaggedSac said:
Serious_frusting said:
it was to be expected because it is just an ps eye

The only thing that will separate these two is the software on them. Who can out casual the other?

Are you speaking from a hardware price perspective or from the ability of the devices?

hardware perpective he is right. since natal will use 1.3mpx sensor.

ability well, depends if sony also delivers face recogntion and the promised voice recognition.



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Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Serious_frusting said:
it was to be expected because it is just an ps eye

The only thing that will separate these two is the software on them. Who can out casual the other?

Are you speaking from a hardware price perspective or from the ability of the devices?

hardware perpective he is right. since natal will use 1.3mpx sensor.

ability well, depends if sony also delivers face recogntion and the promised voice recognition.

Hardware, you are probably right, only add an IR sensor to the cost, probably not much.

Ability, well lets hear from the Sony engineer himself.  Listen closely at about 1:40.

"We could do motion capture with color, but, you can only do so well."

EyeToy does motion capture with color.  Natal does motion capture with IR.  Ability is not there, and Sony says so.



JaggedSac said:
Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Serious_frusting said:
it was to be expected because it is just an ps eye

The only thing that will separate these two is the software on them. Who can out casual the other?

Are you speaking from a hardware price perspective or from the ability of the devices?

hardware perpective he is right. since natal will use 1.3mpx sensor.

ability well, depends if sony also delivers face recogntion and the promised voice recognition.

Hardware, you are probably right, only add an IR sensor to the cost, probably not much.

Ability, well lets hear from the Sony engineer himself.  Listen closely at about 1:40.

"We could do motion capture with color, but, you can only do so well."

EyeToy does motion capture with color.  Natal does motion capture with IR.  Ability is not there, and Sony says so.

sony can do 1-1 motion tracking though thanks to the controller, face recognition already, even work with interfaces the same way as seen with eye pet.

 



Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Serious_frusting said:
it was to be expected because it is just an ps eye

The only thing that will separate these two is the software on them. Who can out casual the other?

Are you speaking from a hardware price perspective or from the ability of the devices?

hardware perpective he is right. since natal will use 1.3mpx sensor.

ability well, depends if sony also delivers face recogntion and the promised voice recognition.

Hardware, you are probably right, only add an IR sensor to the cost, probably not much.

Ability, well lets hear from the Sony engineer himself.  Listen closely at about 1:40.

 

"We could do motion capture with color, but, you can only do so well."

EyeToy does motion capture with color.  Natal does motion capture with IR.  Ability is not there, and Sony says so.

sony can do 1-1 motion tracking though thanks to the controller, face recognition already, even work with interfaces the same way as seen with eye pet.

 

It is still using color to track to bright balls.  So it is a 1:1 mapping to two glowing orbs.  Not a 1:1 mapping with an entire body like Natal.

RGB just isn't as good for motion tracking as IR.  Which is what my question to Serious was about, since he stated that it is just a PSEye.  Which it clearly isn't, as stated by the horse's mouth.



JaggedSac said:
Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Serious_frusting said:
it was to be expected because it is just an ps eye

The only thing that will separate these two is the software on them. Who can out casual the other?

Are you speaking from a hardware price perspective or from the ability of the devices?

hardware perpective he is right. since natal will use 1.3mpx sensor.

ability well, depends if sony also delivers face recogntion and the promised voice recognition.

Hardware, you are probably right, only add an IR sensor to the cost, probably not much.

Ability, well lets hear from the Sony engineer himself.  Listen closely at about 1:40.

 

"We could do motion capture with color, but, you can only do so well."

EyeToy does motion capture with color.  Natal does motion capture with IR.  Ability is not there, and Sony says so.

sony can do 1-1 motion tracking though thanks to the controller, face recognition already, even work with interfaces the same way as seen with eye pet.

 

It is still using color to track to bright balls.  So it is a 1:1 mapping to two glowing orbs.  Not a 1:1 mapping with an entire body like Natal.

RGB just isn't as good for motion tracking as IR.  Which is what my question to Serious was about, since he stated that it is just a PSEye.  Which it clearly isn't, as stated by the horse's mouth.

of course tech it's better, but software will be? and natal still isn't 1-1.



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So ms copy Sonys eye camera and it's suddenly big news?. Even ms's e3 conferense was a direct clone of sonys when releasing eyetoy several years ago.



alanshearer said:
So ms copy Sonys eye camera and it's suddenly big news?. Even ms's e3 conferense was a direct clone of sonys when releasing eyetoy several years ago.

You're a direct clone of several posters who have been perma banned.



Tease.

JaggedSac said:
Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Xoj said:
JaggedSac said:
Serious_frusting said:
it was to be expected because it is just an ps eye

The only thing that will separate these two is the software on them. Who can out casual the other?

Are you speaking from a hardware price perspective or from the ability of the devices?

hardware perpective he is right. since natal will use 1.3mpx sensor.

ability well, depends if sony also delivers face recogntion and the promised voice recognition.

Hardware, you are probably right, only add an IR sensor to the cost, probably not much.

Ability, well lets hear from the Sony engineer himself.  Listen closely at about 1:40.

 

"We could do motion capture with color, but, you can only do so well."

EyeToy does motion capture with color.  Natal does motion capture with IR.  Ability is not there, and Sony says so.

sony can do 1-1 motion tracking though thanks to the controller, face recognition already, even work with interfaces the same way as seen with eye pet.

 

It is still using color to track to bright balls.  So it is a 1:1 mapping to two glowing orbs.  Not a 1:1 mapping with an entire body like Natal.

RGB just isn't as good for motion tracking as IR.  Which is what my question to Serious was about, since he stated that it is just a PSEye.  Which it clearly isn't, as stated by the horse's mouth.

This video is referring to the millions of possible colors that someone could be wearing. The whole purpose of the ball instead just track someone arm/hand is the ball will be tracking one of four colors which is a lot easier to program the camera to track. Thus the PS eye has a lot easier time tracking the ball than your face, hands, arms,etc.

 IR  is nothing more than a certain color itself so I don't see why a camera could just as easy track a glowly red ball.



Smidlee said:
JaggedSac said:

It is still using color to track to bright balls.  So it is a 1:1 mapping to two glowing orbs.  Not a 1:1 mapping with an entire body like Natal.

RGB just isn't as good for motion tracking as IR.  Which is what my question to Serious was about, since he stated that it is just a PSEye.  Which it clearly isn't, as stated by the horse's mouth.

This video is referring to the millions of possible colors that someone could be wearing. The whole purpose of the ball instead just track someone arm/hand is the ball will be one of four colors which is a lot easier to program the camera to track. Thus the PS eye has a lot easier time tracking the ball than your face, hands, arms,etc.

 IR  is nothing more than a certain color itself so I don't see why a camera could just as easy track a glowly red ball.

The color in the video that the engineer is referring to is the output from an RGB camera.  Detecting body parts and depth using only colors and edges is not an easy thing to accomplish and is in fact not particularly accurate and prone to many discrepancies.  The balls will be used because they are a standard shape and brightness, so the software will know the exact distance that the object is at due to the size of the circle of color.

Natal uses IR pulses to generate an "image" of depth.  The brightness of each pixel corresponds to its depth, there is no guess work involved to determine how far away it is, and the background is effectively separated from the player.  They use software and the depth information to determine a 48 point skeleton, which is then output to the 360 much like controller output.  Natal can track each body part just as easily as the PS3 motion system can track the balls, which corresponds only to the ability of Natal's ability to track the hands.



I thought I've read the exact opposite . that "the PlayStation Eye is more accurate and more precise." than Natal.