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Forums - General - Why is there a gaymers group?

Thatmax on 07 November 2009

I was expecting an appreciation thread for Gaymers brand apple and pear cider : (



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dtewi on 07 November 2009
nightsurge said:

This is slightly off topic, but does the phrase "That's gay" or whatever really offend homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual individuals? Yeah sure "gay" in this context has negative connotations, but the word gay never meant homosexual in the first place. It only became an insult for homosexuals when a few authors (early to late 1800's I think) used the term "gay cat" to refer to a homosexual male. I find it odd that the community as a whole has adopted a transformed insult as their main nomenclature.

Now if people were saying "That's homo" or "That's lesbian" then I'd see everything wrong with it. But when the word "gay" developed as an insult (after origianlly meaning happy and joyful), I do not see how it is wrong to use it in a negative sense of conversation. "Gay" is just a generic insult/negative word these days. Why don't homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, etc. just start going by their official nomenclature rather than the word that used to mean happiness and joy that got transformed into an insult on their community?

You don't see how it is wrong?

When the word "gay" is used negatively, it connotates abnormality or stupidity. Obviously, this stems from bigotry of the gay community. It is negative to use it because it can be hurtful to gay people and the overall usage of it is not helpful to the gay community.

Just because many people use it as a generic insult that does not make it okay. If a lot of people started saying "That's so Mexican", would you think there's anything wrong with it?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

nightsurge on 07 November 2009
dtewi said:
nightsurge said:

This is slightly off topic, but does the phrase "That's gay" or whatever really offend homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual individuals? Yeah sure "gay" in this context has negative connotations, but the word gay never meant homosexual in the first place. It only became an insult for homosexuals when a few authors (early to late 1800's I think) used the term "gay cat" to refer to a homosexual male. I find it odd that the community as a whole has adopted a transformed insult as their main nomenclature.

Now if people were saying "That's homo" or "That's lesbian" then I'd see everything wrong with it. But when the word "gay" developed as an insult (after origianlly meaning happy and joyful), I do not see how it is wrong to use it in a negative sense of conversation. "Gay" is just a generic insult/negative word these days. Why don't homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, etc. just start going by their official nomenclature rather than the word that used to mean happiness and joy that got transformed into an insult on their community?

You don't see how it is wrong?

When the word "gay" is used negatively, it connotates abnormality or stupidity. Obviously, this stems from bigotry of the gay community. It is negative to use it because it can be hurtful to gay people and the overall usage of it is not helpful to the gay community.

Just because many people use it as a generic insult that does not make it okay. If a lot of people started saying "That's so Mexican", would you think there's anything wrong with it?

But what I'm saying is there is no "gay" people.  There are homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, etc.

If people started using "That's so Mexican" or "that's so Canadian" or w/e I would see something wrong with it because it is directly referencing the official name of a group of people.  I guess the way I see it is that homosexuals, lesbians, et. all should just stop using the term gay to incorrectly describe them and use the official formal term.  That'd dissolve any connection between "That's gay" and them.  And lets face it, no one is going to stop everyone from saying "That's gay" or "that's retarded", so it'd make more sense and cause less drama this way.



Boutros on 07 November 2009
nightsurge said:
dtewi said:
nightsurge said:

This is slightly off topic, but does the phrase "That's gay" or whatever really offend homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual individuals? Yeah sure "gay" in this context has negative connotations, but the word gay never meant homosexual in the first place. It only became an insult for homosexuals when a few authors (early to late 1800's I think) used the term "gay cat" to refer to a homosexual male. I find it odd that the community as a whole has adopted a transformed insult as their main nomenclature.

Now if people were saying "That's homo" or "That's lesbian" then I'd see everything wrong with it. But when the word "gay" developed as an insult (after origianlly meaning happy and joyful), I do not see how it is wrong to use it in a negative sense of conversation. "Gay" is just a generic insult/negative word these days. Why don't homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, etc. just start going by their official nomenclature rather than the word that used to mean happiness and joy that got transformed into an insult on their community?

You don't see how it is wrong?

When the word "gay" is used negatively, it connotates abnormality or stupidity. Obviously, this stems from bigotry of the gay community. It is negative to use it because it can be hurtful to gay people and the overall usage of it is not helpful to the gay community.

Just because many people use it as a generic insult that does not make it okay. If a lot of people started saying "That's so Mexican", would you think there's anything wrong with it?

But what I'm saying is there is no "gay" people.  There are homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, etc.

If people started using "That's so Mexican" or "that's so Canadian" or w/e I would see something wrong with it because it is directly referencing the official name of a group of people.  I guess the way I see it is that homosexuals, lesbians, et. all should just stop using the term gay to incorrectly describe them and use the official formal term.  That'd dissolve any connection between "That's gay" and them.  And lets face it, no one is going to stop everyone from saying "That's gay" or "that's retarded", so it'd make more sense and cause less drama this way.

The word "gay" is not an insult lol

"That's gay" made it an insult but saying someone is gay should either mean he/she's happy or he/she's homesexual/lesbian.



dtewi on 07 November 2009

You're mad because the term gay is used to describe homosexuals instead of it being added to the plethora of insults that are floating around in this world?

Gay has meant for decades homosexual. It's not incorrect usage of the term, that's what it means.

And "gay" quite obviously refers to homosexuals.

How about this. If a lawn was not cut and sprouting weeds, would you see a problem with me saying "This lawn is really mexican"?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you

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nightsurge on 07 November 2009
dtewi said:

You're mad because the term gay is used to describe homosexuals instead of it being added to the plethora of insults that are floating around in this world?

Gay has meant for decades homosexual. It's not incorrect usage of the term, that's what it means.

And "gay" quite obviously refers to homosexuals.

How about this. If a lawn was not cut and sprouting weeds, would you see a problem with me saying "This lawn is really mexican"?

I'm mad?  Hahaha, that sure surprises me.  I'm not mad at all.

If anyone took the time to look up the history of the word gay, it originated as Happy, then became an insult for homosexuals with the term "gay cat" which was first used by authors in the 1800's.  Then it somehow went from insult to the word of choice for homosexuals.

All I am saying is that I don't understand why this happened in the first place, and I just feel it would be easier and far more likely to accomplish something if they stopped using the word "gay" to refer to them.

If someone said "This lawn is really mexican" referring to mexican geology and landscape, I'd see nothing wrong with this at all.  If they were referring to the official name of the people, I'd not approve.

 

@axum
I agree with what you posted.  I'm more just interested in the history and how gay became the word of choice to begin with.  Then I merely suggested a solution which I feel would be an easier and less dramatic change to stop the connection between "That's gay" and homosexuals.



Slimebeast on 07 November 2009

Do u have any non-gay members on that gaymer list?



stof on 07 November 2009

Because homosexuals constitute a minority that still faces prejudice on a daily bases, thus substantiating the desire, if not need, for such individuals to find solace and support in numbers.

A while ago a thread started about people saying "that's so gay" and a shockingly sizable group of posters had the audacity to defend the oft made insult as being perfectly normal, acceptable and non offensive. I can't think of a better example of why such a camaraderie would be necessary.

And incase anyone is thinking of posting that list of gay forum posters again, I'd just like to remind people that I'm not gay; I'm Bi.



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welshbloke on 07 November 2009

Not to belittle the topic but when I read the original OP I thought duh! it is Cider drinkers. Then a more obvious answer unfolded.

I am from the UK and Gaymers is a very famous brand of cider dating back to 1870 when William Gaymer founded the business. It simple never occurred to me to connect any sexual orientation to it at all.



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damkira on 07 November 2009

Gay is a term that a group of people have been using to define themselves for nearly a century.. in fact, it has surpassed the archaic definition of the term so much that gay as homosexual has become the common usage for that word in English. How can you not think that its a ridiculous and unreasonable demand to ask a large group to stop defining itself with a word when that word has been adopted by some as an insult?