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Forums - General - Tea Party Protester Compares Health Care Reform to the Holocaust

Were there protests led by republican congresspeople and calling for a taxpayer revolution under Bush and marching to the capital? Did the same people calling Obama's policies as bad as terrorism say that under Bush? yes there were libertarians and conservatives complaining under Bush and I have no problem with them still complaining about a legitimate point, but those that voted for Bush and stuck by him and now are complaining about spending (including congresspeople and republican senators) are a joke.

Did Fox News say that the president is destroying America when bush bailed out the banks? well they're pretty much calling for a revolt at this point even though taxes are still the same under Obama as they were under Bush.

As for the debt road trip keep in mind that Obama inherited the worst American economy since the depression from Bush and thus government spending went up to avert a complete economic collapse. The national debt returned under Bush and his policies are responsible for putting the economy and the debt where it is now.



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ckmlb said:

Were there protests led by republican congresspeople and calling for a taxpayer revolution under Bush and marching to the capital? Did the same people calling Obama's policies as bad as terrorism say that under Bush? yes there were libertarians and conservatives complaining under Bush and I have no problem with them still complaining about a legitimate point, but those that voted for Bush and stuck by him and now are complaining about spending (including congresspeople and republican senators) are a joke.

Did Fox News say that the president is destroying America when bush bailed out the banks? well they're pretty much calling for a revolt at this point even though taxes are still the same under Obama as they were under Bush.

As for the debt road trip keep in mind that Obama inherited the worst American economy since the depression from Bush and thus government spending went up to avert a complete economic collapse. The national debt returned under Bush and his policies are responsible for putting the economy and the debt where it is now.

The debt never went anywhere; you're talking about deficits.

Anyway, much of what you say is true, but the same can be said about the left as well. What about the Democrats - including Obama - who grumbled or expressed (apparently feigned) outrage over bailouts only to continue and expand them after Bush left office? What about the Democrats who damn Republicans (or even other Democrats) for being obstructionists today, but who were urging obstructionism against Bush's policies just a year ago? What about the Democrats and Democrat-aligned organizations who declared their desire to "take back America" who now insist that such a slogan is nefarious and racist when it's used against them? Olbermann was praised by some as the second coming of Edward R. Murrow for repeatedly calling Bush a "fascist", and I certainly didn't see him take much flak from his fellow travelers on the left (except from Clinton supporters during the Democratic primary), so why is it suddenly beyond the pale when Beck does the same thing to Obama? Etc., etc.

Neither side has a monopoly on hypocrisy, and it always strikes me as rather disingenuous when people show more concern for the hypocrisy and corruption of the other side than that of their own.



ckmlb said:

Were there protests led by republican congresspeople and calling for a taxpayer revolution under Bush and marching to the capital? Did the same people calling Obama's policies as bad as terrorism say that under Bush? yes there were libertarians and conservatives complaining under Bush and I have no problem with them still complaining about a legitimate point, but those that voted for Bush and stuck by him and now are complaining about spending (including congresspeople and republican senators) are a joke.

Did Fox News say that the president is destroying America when bush bailed out the banks? well they're pretty much calling for a revolt at this point even though taxes are still the same under Obama as they were under Bush.

As for the debt road trip keep in mind that Obama inherited the worst American economy since the depression from Bush and thus government spending went up to avert a complete economic collapse. The national debt returned under Bush and his policies are responsible for putting the economy and the debt where it is now.

This argument rests entirely on the fantasy that the Bush spending rate equals the Obama spending rate.  It is a matter of undeniable fact that this is not the case and that in reality Obama is outpacing the Bush spending by a massive margin...honestly I am not sure if I would call it a margin anymore once its beyond a 200% increase...the word margin just does not seem to apply in that case. 

So please, stop repeating that there is a major difference in the reactions like its some scandal when there is a blatant and completely legitimate reason for the reactions to be massively different.

edit: Here just in case you decided to skip it the first time, I will post it again:

Again....there is a completely legitimate reason to be motivated to protest now without having felt that need before...its because the problem just got 3x worse.  Accept it.

 

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
badgenome said:
ckmlb said:

 

The debt never went anywhere; you're talking about deficits.

Anyway, much of what you say is true, but the same can be said about the left as well. What about the Democrats - including Obama - who grumbled or expressed (apparently feigned) outrage over bailouts only to continue and expand them after Bush left office? What about the Democrats who damn Republicans (or even other Democrats) for being obstructionists today, but who were urging obstructionism against Bush's policies just a year ago? What about the Democrats and Democrat-aligned organizations who declared their desire to "take back America" who now insist that such a slogan is nefarious and racist when it's used against them? Olbermann was praised by some as the second coming of Edward R. Murrow for repeatedly calling Bush a "fascist", and I certainly didn't see him take much flak from his fellow travelers on the left (except from Clinton supporters during the Democratic primary), so why is it suddenly beyond the pale when Beck does the same thing to Obama? Etc., etc.

Neither side has a monopoly on hypocrisy, and it always strikes me as rather disingenuous when people show more concern for the hypocrisy and corruption of the other side than that of their own.

I mean the deficit, but also the debt and I think the government is borrowing money to pay for the bailouts. And most in both parties work together to make things worse for most peole, but better for them. As for the criticism for obstructionist senators, the republicans and Fox news did hte same about democrat obstructionists it's free speech to criticize, I don't know the problem with the words take back america. Calling Bush a fascist was extreme but the amount of problems this country has gone through under Bush and hte scandals taht his administration cannot be matched by any in modern US history and comparing Obama to Bush for what he has done so far (which he hasn't done much at all) is ridiculous.

Things that happened during 8 years of Bush-

Economic disaster.

Unnecessary war in Iraq

Islamist terrorism on the rise around the world from Bali to Spain to the UK.

The attempt to privatize social security which would have meant the death of social security during the economic collapse and grandpas on the streets

9/11 happened during Bush's watch but Clinton was blamed even though Bush did nothing to boost security pre-9/11 and there were repeated warninrs about an upcoming Al Qaeda attack.

Guantanamo Bay which drove away most US allies.

The peace process in the middle east has been dead.

The no bid contracts to KBR and Halliburton and the following scandal of KBR not providing American troops with safe wiring. 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/kbr.electrical/index.html

The response to the biggest natural disaster in the US in recent years was a mess, Katrina.

Sending in too few troops resulting in years of losses and no progress against insurgents in Iraq against a fellow republican's wishes (John McCain)

Jack Abramoff and Scooter Libby scandals and Joe Wilson leak, endagering a CIA operative.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/03/abramoff.plea/

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/28/leak.probe/

Lies about how Pat Tillman was killed by the enemy to increase support for Aghan war.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/24/tillman.hearing/index.html

Rendition of terrorist and suspects to foreign countries where they were tortured, thus the US helped torture people.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/28/extraordinary.rendition/index.html

No bid contracts post Katrina.

Niger Uranium was false, but was used by Cheney despite being told it was false.

Fall of the US dollar's value to record lows.

Warrantless wire tapping of US citizens.

Walter Reed scandal.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/02/army.secretary/index.html

Paying Iraqi journalists for propaganda supporting the war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/world/middleeast/24propaganda.html?ex=1306123200&en=87f776e901aa126a&ei=5088&partner=r

Not letting the media show the return of the coffins of American soldiers killed in action.

and many others, man wasn't that a great presidency?

 

 



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

ckmlb said:
badgenome said:
ckmlb said:

 

The debt never went anywhere; you're talking about deficits.

Anyway, much of what you say is true, but the same can be said about the left as well. What about the Democrats - including Obama - who grumbled or expressed (apparently feigned) outrage over bailouts only to continue and expand them after Bush left office? What about the Democrats who damn Republicans (or even other Democrats) for being obstructionists today, but who were urging obstructionism against Bush's policies just a year ago? What about the Democrats and Democrat-aligned organizations who declared their desire to "take back America" who now insist that such a slogan is nefarious and racist when it's used against them? Olbermann was praised by some as the second coming of Edward R. Murrow for repeatedly calling Bush a "fascist", and I certainly didn't see him take much flak from his fellow travelers on the left (except from Clinton supporters during the Democratic primary), so why is it suddenly beyond the pale when Beck does the same thing to Obama? Etc., etc.

Neither side has a monopoly on hypocrisy, and it always strikes me as rather disingenuous when people show more concern for the hypocrisy and corruption of the other side than that of their own.

I mean the deficit, but also the debt and I think the government is borrowing money to pay for the bailouts. And most in both parties work together to make things worse for most peole, but better for them. As for the criticism for obstructionist senators, the republicans and Fox news did hte same about democrat obstructionists it's free speech to criticize, I don't know the problem with the words take back america. Calling Bush a fascist was extreme but the amount of problems this country has gone through under Bush and hte scandals taht his administration cannot be matched by any in modern US history and comparing Obama to Bush for what he has done so far (which he hasn't done much at all) is ridiculous.

Things that happened during 8 years of Bush-

Economic disaster.

Unnecessary war in Iraq

Islamist terrorism on the rise around the world from Bali to Spain to the UK.

The attempt to privatize social security which would have meant the death of social security during the economic collapse and grandpas on the streets

9/11 happened during Bush's watch but Clinton was blamed even though Bush did nothing to boost security pre-9/11 and there were repeated warninrs about an upcoming Al Qaeda attack.

Guantanamo Bay which drove away most US allies.

The peace process in the middle east has been dead.

The no bid contracts to KBR and Halliburton and the following scandal of KBR not providing American troops with safe wiring. 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/kbr.electrical/index.html

The response to the biggest natural disaster in the US in recent years was a mess, Katrina.

Sending in too few troops resulting in years of losses and no progress against insurgents in Iraq against a fellow republican's wishes (John McCain)

Jack Abramoff and Scooter Libby scandals and Joe Wilson leak, endagering a CIA operative.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/03/abramoff.plea/

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/28/leak.probe/

Lies about how Pat Tillman was killed by the enemy to increase support for Aghan war.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/24/tillman.hearing/index.html

Rendition of terrorist and suspects to foreign countries where they were tortured, thus the US helped torture people.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/28/extraordinary.rendition/index.html

No bid contracts post Katrina.

Niger Uranium was false, but was used by Cheney despite being told it was false.

Fall of the US dollar's value to record lows.

Warrantless wire tapping of US citizens.

Walter Reed scandal.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/02/army.secretary/index.html

Paying Iraqi journalists for propaganda supporting the war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/world/middleeast/24propaganda.html?ex=1306123200&en=87f776e901aa126a&ei=5088&partner=r

Not letting the media show the return of the coffins of American soldiers killed in action.

and many others, man wasn't that a great presidency?

 

 

You are so right....Bush totally got a free pass for that stuff....and ya know what...because of his awesome free pass from the press (you should add that to your list!!) and how much everyone loved Bush...we should give Obama a free pass for his reckless spending, his inability to make a decision after months of deliberating on Afghanistan, his disastrous support of the 3 trillion dollar Pelosi healthcare bill, his refusal to deal with tort reform because he lacks the testicular fortitude to take on trial lawyers, and really a general lack of executive leadership on every major peice of legislation he supports but refuses to step up to the plate and help get passed (with the exception of the disastrous pelosi bill)

....but I guess I am being "ridiculous" to complain about what is going on in the here and now.....

Seriously CK, you will have a hard time convincing anyone Bush did not take a well-deserved beating for his presidency just as you will find it hard to find anyone who actually thinks continuing to bitch about Bush is going to accomplish anything.

What Obama has done thus far is more than sufficient for people to legitimately critique, bitch, protest, etc...his policies.  Maybe certain parts of what they are saying is wrong, and maybe they are right, but complaining about Bush some more is not the way to argue the point.  It comes off as a petty rehash of what has become the predictable and safe fallback for Obama supporters who are at a loss to explain what is becoming an increasingly glaring lack of competence in the WH.



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ckmlb,

I am the last person who needs to be convinced that Bush was an inept fuckhead. It sure didn't help that he was briefly given a free pass by most of the media in the wake of 9/11, but I've been saying this for years now and it's been proven with Obama: the lesson the media took from that is that Republicans need to be scrutinized more, and that is something they're all too happy to do since something ridiculously close to 100% of journalists are liberal anyway. (I do hate calling such illiberal twats "liberal" but submit here to the common vernacular.) Democrats, however, will get a free pass unless they're not governing from far enough to the left.

Look at the list you've compiled. How much of it has Obama changed for the better? In point of fact, he is exacerbating many of those problems, but too much of the "watchdog media" spends more time beating the shit out of Sarah Palin and conducting hard-hitting interviews with her former son-in-law-to-be than keeping tabs on Obama, aside from what his wife is planting in the herb garden this week and just how all-around golly-gee great he is. I heard endless quailing about Bush's warrantless wiretaps and his faith-based initiatives and supposed disregard for the separation of church and state; about Obama's, I hear none.

Are many Republicans and the so-called teabaggers hypocrites? Sure, but so is much of the left. The ones who said, "Don't question my patriotism!" but who now gleefully question the patriotism of others. The ones who equated every opposition to a Bush policy with "supporting the terrorists" but now call every opponent of an Obama policy "racist". The ones who deride people who question Obama's citizenship as "birthers" but see no reason to ridicule those other birthers - the ones who question whether Palin's developmentally challenged daughter is, in fact, her daughter, as if anyone with half a brain gives a fuck. From where I sit, Democrats are the new Republicans.



Technically, i don't know if you could say he showed any "testicular fortitude" when it came to the health care bill.

The health care plan proposed isn't the Obama Plan.

It's the Clinton Plan that he was greatly against during the primaries when he was against any sort of healthcare mandates.

In general the problem with the Obama administration is the lack of Change promised because Pelosi doesn't respect him and has been pushing him around to the more "senate" view of things knowing that on anything important Obama isn't going to clash with them because he's afraid the things will never pass then.



Kasz216 said:
Technically, i don't know if you could say he showed any "testicular fortitude" when it came to the health care bill.

The health care plan proposed isn't the Obama Plan.

It's the Clinton Plan that he was greatly against during the primaries when he was against any sort of healthcare mandates.

Yeah. We've gone from "Oh, Hillary! That's so silly! You can't penalize people for buying health insurance which they want to purchase but can't afford," to "Buy health insurance or we'll lock your ass up."

Plus he's changed his tune on McCain's idea of taxing health care benefits. Change you can believe in - every two fucking seconds.