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Forums - Nintendo - Should Nintendo really be proud of third parties success on Wii?

Joelcool7 on 31 October 2009
scottie said:
Sigh. a few things to point out to you.

Nintendo are not 'slacking off' They have x developers each working a 40 hour week. Each of these developers can produce code of a certain quality in a certain time. They can be rushed to produce worse games better, or given extra time to make better games. If Nintendo are releasing fewer games (which they aren't btw - more on this later) then it is because they are putting more effort into making the games great. Nintendo do not tell their employees to 'work slower' for some bizarre reason about wanting to give 3rd party devs a chance

As for why you beleive that Nintendo are producing fewer games, it's a combination of Nintendo making more games for the DS than before, Nintendo making more games for WW than before, and you only counting game releases if they personally interest you.

Now, the fact is, 21:43 is a very high ratio of 1st party to 3rd party. Calculate it for any other console except the PS3, Dreamcast, N64, GC (btw, if you work out what those consoles have in common you will realise why Nintendo are happy that the ratio is lower than it could be)

Well the GameCube has fewer million sellers then the Wii. So its definatly true that Nintendo has produced more million sellers for the Wii. I'm not argueing that. However Nintendo has purposley under performed to boost third party sales, last years line-up is the perfect example, WiiMusic and Animal crossing made up Nintendo's fall line-up. Past years Nintendo also released weak Christmas line-ups allowing third parties a chance to out perform Nintendo's own titles.

That ratio 2:1 for third parties is pretty high for a Nintendo platform. Nintendo usually performs far better when paired alongside its competition. Can you actually think that lower numbers of million sellers can possibly be good?



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

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txrattlesnake on 31 October 2009

No. And, it's especially bad considering these high selling third party games are titles like Carnival Games and not games like No More Heroes or Okami that deserve good sales.



LordTheNightKnight on 31 October 2009
miz1q2w3e said:
i guess it's a good thing that 3rd party devs sell well on Wii, maybe Iwata was just addressing the criticism - that Wii wasn't a good place to publish games for 3rd party devs and that only Nintendo games sell well on Nintendo platforms.

And NPD showed it isn't true either. Even if the ratio dropped since that announcement, it still shows they sell on the Wii.

"No. And, it's especially bad considering these high selling third party games are titles like Carnival Games and not games like No More Heroes or Okami that deserve good sales."

Both made money, and both are getting sequels. Don't tell me they didn't have good sales.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

.jayderyu on 31 October 2009

During the NES/SNES days Nintendo was not top dog of their own system. Nintendo was only 20% of their own market. Though admitidly they were the only company to have 20% of solid software sales. The total of 3rd party was 80%. The at the height of Nintendo consoles Nintendo was NOT TOP DOG. Anything else is myth and comes from the poor conception that Nintendo was and should be based on when 3rd parties abondended them.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

johnsobas on 01 November 2009
.jayderyu said:
During the NES/SNES days Nintendo was not top dog of their own system. Nintendo was only 20% of their own market. Though admitidly they were the only company to have 20% of solid software sales. The total of 3rd party was 80%. The at the height of Nintendo consoles Nintendo was NOT TOP DOG. Anything else is myth and comes from the poor conception that Nintendo was and should be based on when 3rd parties abondended them.

you're gonna have to show us a link, it feels like you are just guessing here.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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scruffybunny on 01 November 2009

Some of the best 3rd party games on Ninty are PS2 / GC games, Nintendo should not be proud of that, but they should be gleefully happy about Monster Hunter 3 and Totsunoko. For them its win win if 3rd party success is big.




scottie on 01 November 2009
Joelcool7 said:
scottie said:
Sigh. a few things to point out to you.

Nintendo are not 'slacking off' They have x developers each working a 40 hour week. Each of these developers can produce code of a certain quality in a certain time. They can be rushed to produce worse games better, or given extra time to make better games. If Nintendo are releasing fewer games (which they aren't btw - more on this later) then it is because they are putting more effort into making the games great. Nintendo do not tell their employees to 'work slower' for some bizarre reason about wanting to give 3rd party devs a chance

As for why you beleive that Nintendo are producing fewer games, it's a combination of Nintendo making more games for the DS than before, Nintendo making more games for WW than before, and you only counting game releases if they personally interest you.

Now, the fact is, 21:43 is a very high ratio of 1st party to 3rd party. Calculate it for any other console except the PS3, Dreamcast, N64, GC (btw, if you work out what those consoles have in common you will realise why Nintendo are happy that the ratio is lower than it could be)

Well the GameCube has fewer million sellers then the Wii. So its definatly true that Nintendo has produced more million sellers for the Wii. I'm not argueing that. However Nintendo has purposley under performed to boost third party sales, last years line-up is the perfect example, WiiMusic and Animal crossing made up Nintendo's fall line-up. Past years Nintendo also released weak Christmas line-ups allowing third parties a chance to out perform Nintendo's own titles.

That ratio 2:1 for third parties is pretty high for a Nintendo platform. Nintendo usually performs far better when paired alongside its competition. Can you actually think that lower numbers of million sellers can possibly be good?

Ok, please, just tell me. Are you trying to say that Nintendo executives are telling the coders to have extra coffee breaks or something similar? Or are you trying to say that Nintendo releases their big games away from Christmas to help 3rd parties. If the first, you are very out of touch with reality and have spent too much time on the internets. If the second, then I would argue that Nintendo releases games when they are done, rather than either rushing a game or sitting on it for a bit so that it can release at Christmas. This is more because releasing at Christmas isn't necessary for games that will sell for ears to come.

 

Also, I assume you haven't played either of Wii Music or Animal crossing. Because I have not heard a single person who owns either game say that they are bad.

 

Last years christmas did indeed see two incredible games, it could perhaps have seen more, but a lot of Nintendo's top teams had just finished making Brawl, MKWii and Wii fit, which all released earlier in the year because Nintendo knows you don't need to release during November to get good sales.



johnsobas on 01 November 2009
LordTheNightKnight said:
miz1q2w3e said:
i guess it's a good thing that 3rd party devs sell well on Wii, maybe Iwata was just addressing the criticism - that Wii wasn't a good place to publish games for 3rd party devs and that only Nintendo games sell well on Nintendo platforms.

And NPD showed it isn't true either. Even if the ratio dropped since that announcement, it still shows they sell on the Wii.

"No. And, it's especially bad considering these high selling third party games are titles like Carnival Games and not games like No More Heroes or Okami that deserve good sales."

Both made money, and both are getting sequels. Don't tell me they didn't have good sales.


yes they are both getting sequels, and similar games like god hand and okami on ps2 didn't sell big numbers either. 



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

Joelcool7 on 01 November 2009
.jayderyu said:
During the NES/SNES days Nintendo was not top dog of their own system. Nintendo was only 20% of their own market. Though admitidly they were the only company to have 20% of solid software sales. The total of 3rd party was 80%. The at the height of Nintendo consoles Nintendo was NOT TOP DOG. Anything else is myth and comes from the poor conception that Nintendo was and should be based on when 3rd parties abondended them.

I'd also like to see a link to prove that statement. I mean Nintendo didn't even let publishers release more then five games a year, if I recall and sales of Mario , Donkey Kong , Zelda, etc....etc... couldn't possibly be only 20% of the market. Nintendo did extremely well as a first party publisher and on the N64/GameCube most million sellers were Nintendo's own. These sales showed just how successful Nintendo is as a games publisher!

I remember when Iwata said , we don't need third parties to succeed with the Wii. (TGS 2005). I was really happy, Nintendo has always been my favorite games publisher and I loved all the hardcore support on the N64/GameCube. Then Nintendo gives us a fall lineup of Animal Crossing and WiiMusic among other weak holiday's. The only thing that makes sense is that Nintendo threw in the towel to bulster third party sales!

And as someone else pointed out. The strong selling third party titles make a mockery of the platform. I mean come on Carnival Games being put in the same sales margins as a last gen mario game! I think Nintendo should be ashamed that third party titles are reaching the million mark 2:1. Nintendo should be dominating the market at least 2:1 if not 3:1 considering most of the stuff on Wii is cheap shovelware!



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

scottie on 01 November 2009

Joelcool - I have a link that can disprove it for you.

Total NES games shipped = 500.01 million. 20% of that is 100 million.
So I need to find 101 million 1st party sales
SMB1+2+3 = 40.23+18+10 = 68.23

Good start

Zelda I/II = 10.89

Data above is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Nintendo_Entertainment_System, which took the data from retailer shipment figures

Data below from VGChartz

DuckHunt = 24.53 million

Total from 6 Nintendo games = 103.65 million = 20.61% of all NES games sold